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	<title>Comments on: ZIP, Zillow and ZAP &#8211; Part 1 of ?</title>
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	<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/</link>
	<description>Seattle&#039;s Leading Resource for Real Estate Information</description>
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		<title>By: Real Estate Lead Generating Companies</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-172059</link>
		<dc:creator>Real Estate Lead Generating Companies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-172059</guid>
		<description>[...] I was searching &quot;the net&quot; this evening and stumbled on another real estate blog serving the Seattle area. The post I started reading discussed the business model of some companies that specialize in lead generation from the internet. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I was searching &quot;the net&quot; this evening and stumbled on another real estate blog serving the Seattle area. The post I started reading discussed the business model of some companies that specialize in lead generation from the internet. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Seattle&#8217;s Rain City Real Estate Guide &#187; Microsoft vs. Google a real estate perspective</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-14668</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle&#8217;s Rain City Real Estate Guide &#187; Microsoft vs. Google a real estate perspective</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-14668</guid>
		<description>[...] Since we are entering the Age of Transparency in the real estate transaction, kind of like The Age of Aquarius in my day when everone was stripping off their clothes, I do think that it should not be a surprise to anyone that there is an exchange of monies between the agent and a third party.  That goes for any &#8220;purchase of a person&#8221;, see Zapped,  that does not disclose to the person that they have been bought and sold. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Since we are entering the Age of Transparency in the real estate transaction, kind of like The Age of Aquarius in my day when everone was stripping off their clothes, I do think that it should not be a surprise to anyone that there is an exchange of monies between the agent and a third party.  That goes for any &#8220;purchase of a person&#8221;, see Zapped,  that does not disclose to the person that they have been bought and sold. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1477</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1477</guid>
		<description>Hi Darren,

Remember that while I am fairly well versed at technology and the internet, I am kind of old.  Leads should come to you, the old fashioned way,  because you are good at what you do.  This makes you strive to be one of the best at what you do, so people will refer to you.  If you do not get business that way and need a lead generating source to get business, maybe it&#039;s time to look in the mirror and improve the way you are handling things for your clients.  Someone who has been in the business any length of time and has to keep paying for leads, is doing something wrong.

Given that my ex was a CTO, we moved around quite a bit for awhile.   But even with all of that moving, I was able to generate leads by being knowledgeable and adept at my craft.  

Is the lead generating model only for new agents?  If it is, then how is it good for the consumer to only get to pick from new agents or agents whose clients don&#039;t give them repeat and referral business?

I&#039;m a little confused by your response, as you were confused by mine.  Sometimes this &quot;flat medium&quot; is a bit difficult.  Want to try that again?

Ardell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Darren,</p>
<p>Remember that while I am fairly well versed at technology and the internet, I am kind of old.  Leads should come to you, the old fashioned way,  because you are good at what you do.  This makes you strive to be one of the best at what you do, so people will refer to you.  If you do not get business that way and need a lead generating source to get business, maybe it&#8217;s time to look in the mirror and improve the way you are handling things for your clients.  Someone who has been in the business any length of time and has to keep paying for leads, is doing something wrong.</p>
<p>Given that my ex was a CTO, we moved around quite a bit for awhile.   But even with all of that moving, I was able to generate leads by being knowledgeable and adept at my craft.  </p>
<p>Is the lead generating model only for new agents?  If it is, then how is it good for the consumer to only get to pick from new agents or agents whose clients don&#8217;t give them repeat and referral business?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a little confused by your response, as you were confused by mine.  Sometimes this &#8220;flat medium&#8221; is a bit difficult.  Want to try that again?</p>
<p>Ardell</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1476</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1476</guid>
		<description>Joe, 

You bring up a good point, Joe.  How come when agents are saying &quot;there&#039;s nothing on the market&quot;, meaning they wouldn&#039;t sell those dogs to their worst enemy or they are overpriced, they sell?  Is it because people who search them on the internet and bring a &quot;Find An Agent&quot; agent, buy them up, while we are all waiting for something &quot;good&quot; to come on market to sell to our best clients.  Food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, </p>
<p>You bring up a good point, Joe.  How come when agents are saying &#8220;there&#8217;s nothing on the market&#8221;, meaning they wouldn&#8217;t sell those dogs to their worst enemy or they are overpriced, they sell?  Is it because people who search them on the internet and bring a &#8220;Find An Agent&#8221; agent, buy them up, while we are all waiting for something &#8220;good&#8221; to come on market to sell to our best clients.  Food for thought.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1467</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1467</guid>
		<description>I received this one in an email:

Hello
        I was a bit confused by the article. I didn&#039;t understand what ZIP was even though you referred to it multiple times. Without understanding what ZIP is, it was hard for me to contrast ZAP against ZIP.
        I was able to see what ZAP means regarding how by going through a site to get the housing information I am handing that information to the middleman, who happens to run the website then decides to match me up to some unknown realtor somewhere that has paid to be on the rotation.

        As a consumer though I am curious how to find a good realtor. Referral is the most common way to find a realtor but more often than not people don&#039;t recommend realtors they may have used in the past. It seems stumbling on someone on a website may not be quite as bad as walking into an unknown real estate office and getting some unknown person there. Perhaps in a future post you can put down a bit more about why walking into an office to get a realtor that one doesn&#039;t know is better than getting a realtor from the internet.

        Hopefully part 2 will come out soon and then I will know what ZIP means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I received this one in an email:</p>
<p>Hello<br />
        I was a bit confused by the article. I didn&#8217;t understand what ZIP was even though you referred to it multiple times. Without understanding what ZIP is, it was hard for me to contrast ZAP against ZIP.<br />
        I was able to see what ZAP means regarding how by going through a site to get the housing information I am handing that information to the middleman, who happens to run the website then decides to match me up to some unknown realtor somewhere that has paid to be on the rotation.</p>
<p>        As a consumer though I am curious how to find a good realtor. Referral is the most common way to find a realtor but more often than not people don&#8217;t recommend realtors they may have used in the past. It seems stumbling on someone on a website may not be quite as bad as walking into an unknown real estate office and getting some unknown person there. Perhaps in a future post you can put down a bit more about why walking into an office to get a realtor that one doesn&#8217;t know is better than getting a realtor from the internet.</p>
<p>        Hopefully part 2 will come out soon and then I will know what ZIP means.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1458</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1458</guid>
		<description>Darren,

The problem with the lead generating site is not that an agent pays for the lead, but that he pays for it with the consumer&#039;s money (the way I see it anyway).  That should be disclosed somewhere.  In fact it might be required by law to be disclosed, if the owner of the site were subject to &quot;our&quot; rules.

Think of it kind of like the warning on the side of the box of cigarettes.  I think a lead generation site should have a warning that reads:  &quot;If you hit this button you may be spending thousands of dollars!,  without KNOWING it!  (I know,, I&#039;m shouting, get used to it, I&#039;m Italian)

As to the rest, what you call &quot;negotiating&quot; and what I call &quot;negotiating&quot; are two different things.  I will post that shortly under &quot;Take the Money and Run - Part 2&quot; and then we&#039;ll talk some more.

Great comments BTW!

Ardell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darren,</p>
<p>The problem with the lead generating site is not that an agent pays for the lead, but that he pays for it with the consumer&#8217;s money (the way I see it anyway).  That should be disclosed somewhere.  In fact it might be required by law to be disclosed, if the owner of the site were subject to &#8220;our&#8221; rules.</p>
<p>Think of it kind of like the warning on the side of the box of cigarettes.  I think a lead generation site should have a warning that reads:  &#8220;If you hit this button you may be spending thousands of dollars!,  without KNOWING it!  (I know,, I&#8217;m shouting, get used to it, I&#8217;m Italian)</p>
<p>As to the rest, what you call &#8220;negotiating&#8221; and what I call &#8220;negotiating&#8221; are two different things.  I will post that shortly under &#8220;Take the Money and Run &#8211; Part 2&#8243; and then we&#8217;ll talk some more.</p>
<p>Great comments BTW!</p>
<p>Ardell</p>
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		<title>By: Giles</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator>Giles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1457</guid>
		<description>I have to say i agree with what you are saying Darren.... The big agents who get tons of word of mouth referrals seem less likely to me to take a discount than some anonymous click through agent that someone found and has no allegiance to via the referring party.

life is such a catch 22 isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say i agree with what you are saying Darren&#8230;. The big agents who get tons of word of mouth referrals seem less likely to me to take a discount than some anonymous click through agent that someone found and has no allegiance to via the referring party.</p>
<p>life is such a catch 22 isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1454</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1454</guid>
		<description>Apologies, Joe and others, on my &quot;bad blogging etiquette&quot; responding inside your comment.  I am really excellent at real estate, but I am new to this blogging thing (started my blog 1/1/06) and I am a Grandma!  Doing my best.  I&#039;ll get the hang of it.

I&#039;ll answer anything you ever wanted to know about real estate if you help crack my knuckles and get me into shape in the blog etiquette category.

Deal?

Ardell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies, Joe and others, on my &#8220;bad blogging etiquette&#8221; responding inside your comment.  I am really excellent at real estate, but I am new to this blogging thing (started my blog 1/1/06) and I am a Grandma!  Doing my best.  I&#8217;ll get the hang of it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll answer anything you ever wanted to know about real estate if you help crack my knuckles and get me into shape in the blog etiquette category.</p>
<p>Deal?</p>
<p>Ardell</p>
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		<title>By: darren</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1452</link>
		<dc:creator>darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1452</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the response Ardell. 
So really with your post you are educating buyers to get a word of mouth referral to a real estate agent - since you will have more room to negotiate? That makes sense to some extent, but wouldn&#039;t the agent who is kept busy from their &quot;free&quot; leads not need to negotiate commission?  I would think a well established realtor that doesn&#039;t need to market themselves would also be reluctant to negotiate with you. Kind of a catch 22. 

Is this not your experience?

disclosure: I used to work for a value-add (sorry for the buzzword) lead generation company in a different industry. I have mixed feelings on where they belong in the food chin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the response Ardell.<br />
So really with your post you are educating buyers to get a word of mouth referral to a real estate agent &#8211; since you will have more room to negotiate? That makes sense to some extent, but wouldn&#8217;t the agent who is kept busy from their &#8220;free&#8221; leads not need to negotiate commission?  I would think a well established realtor that doesn&#8217;t need to market themselves would also be reluctant to negotiate with you. Kind of a catch 22. </p>
<p>Is this not your experience?</p>
<p>disclosure: I used to work for a value-add (sorry for the buzzword) lead generation company in a different industry. I have mixed feelings on where they belong in the food chin</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2006/01/19/zip-zillow-and-zap-part-1-of/#comment-1451</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=301#comment-1451</guid>
		<description>Giles is absolutely right.  The &quot;click&quot; lead generation is crap.

Re: (whoever posted in my rsps...hi:) 
If clients are shopping for dogs, agents should *definitely* tell them about available dogs.  Agents who don&#039;t show their clients what they&#039;re looking for are stupid.  If the click strategy drives these bad agents to fast food industry employment...GREAT;)

(Request...when commenting could you please use a different field than my comment...that way I can see who is commenting, when, etc...thanks)

Re: Ardell Rsps.
If I were the buyer I would use the site solely for search.  If I did use the click button and the agent seemed constrained and wasn&#039;t provding the service level I expected, I would call somebody else.

It sounds like you are describing a scenario where buyers can expect an agent to pay them some of the commish back in the form of washers and dryers, inspection fixes, etc.  If this isn&#039;t explicitly negotiated, the buyer should have no expectation.  The only party that percieves this as important is the agent that feels less able to lavish unannounced gifts on buyers.

There are very few cirumstances that I can think of where buyers should expect maximum value from anonymous, click generated referrals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giles is absolutely right.  The &#8220;click&#8221; lead generation is crap.</p>
<p>Re: (whoever posted in my rsps&#8230;hi:)<br />
If clients are shopping for dogs, agents should *definitely* tell them about available dogs.  Agents who don&#8217;t show their clients what they&#8217;re looking for are stupid.  If the click strategy drives these bad agents to fast food industry employment&#8230;GREAT;)</p>
<p>(Request&#8230;when commenting could you please use a different field than my comment&#8230;that way I can see who is commenting, when, etc&#8230;thanks)</p>
<p>Re: Ardell Rsps.<br />
If I were the buyer I would use the site solely for search.  If I did use the click button and the agent seemed constrained and wasn&#8217;t provding the service level I expected, I would call somebody else.</p>
<p>It sounds like you are describing a scenario where buyers can expect an agent to pay them some of the commish back in the form of washers and dryers, inspection fixes, etc.  If this isn&#8217;t explicitly negotiated, the buyer should have no expectation.  The only party that percieves this as important is the agent that feels less able to lavish unannounced gifts on buyers.</p>
<p>There are very few cirumstances that I can think of where buyers should expect maximum value from anonymous, click generated referrals.</p>
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