Comments on: When is it appropriate to use environmentalism to stop developments? http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/ Seattle's Leading Resource for Real Estate Information Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:19:14 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Gerald Lasser http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-103779 Gerald Lasser Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:07:32 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-103779 As a resident of Lake Stickney I want to assure you that this is an environmental concern not a NIMBY response. This is a request by the developers to rezone the property and there are several reasons why this propery is exceptional and should not be rezoned. Several reports have identified the western shore as a sensitive area on Lake Stickney. For example, Snohomish County Public Works, Lake Stickney, State of the Lakes Report 2003, "Future Concerns/Targets - The primary concern is for potential declines in water quality that might result from nutrient pollution coming from the large highly developed watershed. Another concern is the possible loss of wetlands adjacent to the west part of the lake as development pressures increase. ...". In addition, the NEMO: Nonpoint Education for Municipal Officials web site has summary graphs showing the strong correlation between increased urbanization, and lake degradation unless run-off is well controlled and good buffer areas are maintained around lakes and streams. The density of the development proposed on the western shore of lake Stickney does not meet these criteria. As a resident of Lake Stickney I want to assure you that this is an environmental concern not a NIMBY response. This is a request by the developers to rezone the property and there are several reasons why this propery is exceptional and should not be rezoned. Several reports have identified the western shore as a sensitive area on Lake Stickney. For example, Snohomish County Public Works, Lake Stickney, State of the Lakes Report 2003, “Future Concerns/Targets – The primary concern is for potential declines in water quality that might result from nutrient pollution coming from the large highly developed watershed. Another concern is the possible loss of wetlands adjacent to the west part of the lake as development pressures increase. …”. In addition, the NEMO: Nonpoint Education for Municipal Officials web site has summary graphs showing the strong correlation between increased urbanization, and lake degradation unless run-off is well controlled and good buffer areas are maintained around lakes and streams. The density of the development proposed on the western shore of lake Stickney does not meet these criteria.

]]> By: Housing sales fall in 40 states; but not in Northwest | Rain City Guide | A Seattle Real Estate Blog... http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-97932 Housing sales fall in 40 states; but not in Northwest | Rain City Guide | A Seattle Real Estate Blog... Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:10:19 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-97932 [...] So what does this mean?  The nation’s leading homebuilders have all reported declining sales and prices for new homes(hence the fall in permits).  Another partner of mine Snohomish County builder I know actually expressed the same views in November, but said since the first of the year his sales have bounced back to their expectations and he is continuing to submit for permits. [...] [...] So what does this mean?  The nation’s leading homebuilders have all reported declining sales and prices for new homes(hence the fall in permits).  Another partner of mine Snohomish County builder I know actually expressed the same views in November, but said since the first of the year his sales have bounced back to their expectations and he is continuing to submit for permits. [...]

]]> By: Seattle’s Rain City Real Estate Guide » Speaking of Trojan Horses! http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-18558 Seattle’s Rain City Real Estate Guide » Speaking of Trojan Horses! Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:21:27 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-18558 [...] Speaking of Trojan Horses! September 21, 2006 After reading John Cooks blog, ‘Beware of what you post on Zillow?‘ I started to think, how much is to much??? Much like my last post about the ‘Trojan Horse‘ are we all becoming so connected that it makes sense for the County Assessor to start using these tools as a way to fuel the County. In my case, King County Assessor Scott Noble was even quoted as saying, “the new Zillow service could be used as a tool to make sure that homeowners are paying their “fair share.” If the KC Assessor’s office would have used Zilllow’s Zestimate for the tax assessed value of the home LTD Real Estate just sold they would have almost doubled the tax bill. That would mean from this home alone, $2,601.51 more towards the bottom line. Hopefully Ron Sims doesn’t read this blog post… [...] [...] Speaking of Trojan Horses! September 21, 2006 After reading John Cooks blog, ‘Beware of what you post on Zillow?‘ I started to think, how much is to much??? Much like my last post about the ‘Trojan Horse‘ are we all becoming so connected that it makes sense for the County Assessor to start using these tools as a way to fuel the County. In my case, King County Assessor Scott Noble was even quoted as saying, “the new Zillow service could be used as a tool to make sure that homeowners are paying their “fair share.” If the KC Assessor’s office would have used Zilllow’s Zestimate for the tax assessed value of the home LTD Real Estate just sold they would have almost doubled the tax bill. That would mean from this home alone, $2,601.51 more towards the bottom line. Hopefully Ron Sims doesn’t read this blog post… [...]

]]> By: ARDELL http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16820 ARDELL Fri, 08 Sep 2006 18:53:40 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16820 Jon and Dustin, Without reference to Weisfield, existing homes and view protections have a lot to do with the "nature of the beast", rather than the "nature" issues. If the house is in a big City, don't expect any protections beyond zoning requirements. If the house is in a development, then don't go to the City to find or get protections, build them into the CC & R's or Deed Restrictions of the Planned Community. Neighbors can bond together to form a "pact" of sorts, to protect one another, that go far beyond any municipalities protections of value. "Unobstructable" view always trumps "view today; gone tomorrow". Jon and Dustin,

Without reference to Weisfield, existing homes and view protections have a lot to do with the “nature of the beast”, rather than the “nature” issues. If the house is in a big City, don’t expect any protections beyond zoning requirements. If the house is in a development, then don’t go to the City to find or get protections, build them into the CC & R’s or Deed Restrictions of the Planned Community.

Neighbors can bond together to form a “pact” of sorts, to protect one another, that go far beyond any municipalities protections of value. “Unobstructable” view always trumps “view today; gone tomorrow”.

]]> By: Jon http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16798 Jon Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:58:21 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16798 Paul- That is a great example! I wish there was some type of committee that could be a buffer for these types of fights. The problem begins with the barrier to entry, if you will, to fight these battles is so cost effective. Considering Weisfield is very public about the fact they are protecting their "shoppers and shareholders" interests makes their fight even more apparent environmentalism is being used as a 'Trojan Horse' Thanks for bringing up the battle between Weisfield and the Renton Landing! Paul-

That is a great example! I wish there was some type of committee that could be a buffer for these types of fights. The problem begins with the barrier to entry, if you will, to fight these battles is so cost effective.

Considering Weisfield is very public about the fact they are protecting their “shoppers and shareholders” interests makes their fight even more apparent environmentalism is being used as a ‘Trojan Horse’

Thanks for bringing up the battle between Weisfield and the Renton Landing!

]]> By: Jon http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16571 Jon Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:08:10 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16571 Ardell- I believe the best and only way to control the torrid home growth is to be mindful of environmental issues. If the municipality requires a 300’ setback from a wetland, then as extreme as that may be, in my eyes there is absolutely no reason to fight the rules (or seek a variance). On the other hand, with regards to my view going away, I believe it is up to the property owner to decide the highest and best (lawful) use of the land. If I passed on the property I described in my blog because of the opportunity of future growth. In this case, my only options to keep the view would be to either fight the future build by appeal after appeal (dirty game), be granted a height easement or buy the property myself. Ardell-

I believe the best and only way to control the torrid home growth is to be mindful of environmental issues. If the municipality requires a 300’ setback from a wetland, then as extreme as that may be, in my eyes there is absolutely no reason to fight the rules (or seek a variance). On the other hand, with regards to my view going away, I believe it is up to the property owner to decide the highest and best (lawful) use of the land. If I passed on the property I described in my blog because of the opportunity of future growth. In this case, my only options to keep the view would be to either fight the future build by appeal after appeal (dirty game), be granted a height easement or buy the property myself.

]]> By: Mortgage Calculators http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16453 Mortgage Calculators Thu, 07 Sep 2006 07:32:42 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16453 The environment and development are sensitive issue. I feel sorry to wild-life. We are invading their habitat. It is hard to maintain a perfect balance between environment and development. The environment and development are sensitive issue. I feel sorry to wild-life. We are invading their habitat. It is hard to maintain a perfect balance between environment and development.

]]> By: ARDELL http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16425 ARDELL Thu, 07 Sep 2006 04:56:41 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16425 Welcome Jon, You didn't say what your opinion is with regard to your home and your neighbor? How do you really feel, Jon? Some view neighborhoods (Lake Sammamish view) do have restrictions that protect views. Kirkland has FAR values that need to be adhered to, height restrictions, etc...but they do not guarantee how these will impact the view. They simply dictate size of house beyond the normal setback requirements. How do you really feel about your situation? Welcome Jon,

You didn’t say what your opinion is with regard to your home and your neighbor? How do you really feel, Jon?

Some view neighborhoods (Lake Sammamish view) do have restrictions that protect views. Kirkland has FAR values that need to be adhered to, height restrictions, etc…but they do not guarantee how these will impact the view. They simply dictate size of house beyond the normal setback requirements.

How do you really feel about your situation?

]]> By: Rich http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16357 Rich Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:24:44 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16357 As a land use attorney in the SF Bay Area, my experience has been that the real purpose of environmental lawsuits is almost never about the "environmental issues" raised in the suit. The standard lawsuit goes through a project environmental impact report and criticizes everything whether it is a real concern or not. The motivating factors are usually economic or aesthetic, grounds upon which the opponents really have no ground to sue. So they sue over some environmental issue that they really don't care about, because there is room to debate that issue. The only exception I can think of is where neighbors object to a new development because of traffic, and traffic is the real concern. As a land use attorney in the SF Bay Area, my experience has been that the real purpose of environmental lawsuits is almost never about the “environmental issues” raised in the suit. The standard lawsuit goes through a project environmental impact report and criticizes everything whether it is a real concern or not. The motivating factors are usually economic or aesthetic, grounds upon which the opponents really have no ground to sue. So they sue over some environmental issue that they really don’t care about, because there is room to debate that issue. The only exception I can think of is where neighbors object to a new development because of traffic, and traffic is the real concern.

]]> By: Robbie http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16352 Robbie Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:43:51 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2006/09/06/when-is-it-appropriate-to-use-environmentalism-to-stop-developments/#comment-16352 Welcome to the jungle, Jon Welcome to the jungle, Jon

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