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	<title>Comments on: Stirring up the Redfin dust&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Marlow Harris</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137715</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlow Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 15:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137715</guid>
		<description>I spoke to Deborah Arends right after the segment and also offered her a bully pulpit to write from her perspective on her television experience.  Though she was very pleasant, it was obvious she was also very busy and could not see the value of continuing the 60M discussion, especially in our obscure limited-audience blogs.  She got what she wanted out of the experience, but really had to get back to selling real estate, thank you very much.  

Some may not like her traditional hands-on, downhome approach to real estate sales or think her postcard campaigns and PT Cruiser are corny, however her success in the business is impressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spoke to Deborah Arends right after the segment and also offered her a bully pulpit to write from her perspective on her television experience.  Though she was very pleasant, it was obvious she was also very busy and could not see the value of continuing the 60M discussion, especially in our obscure limited-audience blogs.  She got what she wanted out of the experience, but really had to get back to selling real estate, thank you very much.  </p>
<p>Some may not like her traditional hands-on, downhome approach to real estate sales or think her postcard campaigns and PT Cruiser are corny, however her success in the business is impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: JD Blackwell</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137592</link>
		<dc:creator>JD Blackwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 07:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137592</guid>
		<description>Yes, Redfin isn&#039;t all that special. Neither are limited service brokers or part time hacks. The problem as far as I see it is that they put a stink on the profession that&#039;s hard to get away from. There&#039;s no doubt in my mind that buyers and sellers represented by *good* agents make more, lose less, are less likely to wind up in court and enjoy a much lower level of stress in the process. The problem is that one is twice as likely to find a hack in the traditional RE agent pool as a &quot;good&quot; one and when the Redfins/discounters can offer the same crappy service for less why wouldn&#039;t someone make that choice? I&#039;m also convinced that higher standards for licensing will raise the bar enough to get the hacks out and improve the overall quality of the agent pool to the point where Redfin/discounters can&#039;t compete. We&#039;ll never convince the brokers that hiring every rookie licensee that  can fog a mirror is bad for the industry in general. Their business model has nothing to do with real estate, it&#039;s about renting out desk space. I think the impetus needs to come from agents but my past life experience as an elected official in an engineers union tells me that organizing agents, much like engineers, is the functional equivalent of herding cats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Redfin isn&#8217;t all that special. Neither are limited service brokers or part time hacks. The problem as far as I see it is that they put a stink on the profession that&#8217;s hard to get away from. There&#8217;s no doubt in my mind that buyers and sellers represented by *good* agents make more, lose less, are less likely to wind up in court and enjoy a much lower level of stress in the process. The problem is that one is twice as likely to find a hack in the traditional RE agent pool as a &#8220;good&#8221; one and when the Redfins/discounters can offer the same crappy service for less why wouldn&#8217;t someone make that choice? I&#8217;m also convinced that higher standards for licensing will raise the bar enough to get the hacks out and improve the overall quality of the agent pool to the point where Redfin/discounters can&#8217;t compete. We&#8217;ll never convince the brokers that hiring every rookie licensee that  can fog a mirror is bad for the industry in general. Their business model has nothing to do with real estate, it&#8217;s about renting out desk space. I think the impetus needs to come from agents but my past life experience as an elected official in an engineers union tells me that organizing agents, much like engineers, is the functional equivalent of herding cats.</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137552</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 04:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137552</guid>
		<description>The 60 minutes story continues to be interesting... 

I emailed Deborah after the airing to let her know I&#039;d happily give her a place to voice her opinion of the 60 minutes segment, but she never got back to me.  It&#039;s too bad... I&#039;d be interested in hearing her reaction as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 60 minutes story continues to be interesting&#8230; </p>
<p>I emailed Deborah after the airing to let her know I&#8217;d happily give her a place to voice her opinion of the 60 minutes segment, but she never got back to me.  It&#8217;s too bad&#8230; I&#8217;d be interested in hearing her reaction as well.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137551</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 03:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137551</guid>
		<description>Reba,

Glenn gave them my name also, and I gave them Marlow :) Sounds like they got tossed around a bit before landing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reba,</p>
<p>Glenn gave them my name also, and I gave them Marlow <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Sounds like they got tossed around a bit before landing.</p>
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		<title>By: Reba Haas</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137531</link>
		<dc:creator>Reba Haas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 01:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137531</guid>
		<description>As one of the other agents that 60 Minutes interviewed prior to choosing Deborah Arends (and I have a feeling my comments to the producers determined their choice of her) I can tell you that it was pretty clear to me that they were approached by Redfin about the story so they could have a national audience of advertising just prior to their launch of a national release of their services. I figure that Glenn Kelman was directing quite a bit of it as I found out that he had given 60 Minutes my name directly - and I don&#039;t know him like Ardell seems to. I think he&#039;s just seen some of my writings on this blog.

The 60 Minutes producers interviewed me for upwards of 6 hours and I went back and forth with the 60 Minutes producers on several topics, including if commissions were negotiable (they are), and they chose to just leave that kind of information out of their story. In fact, if anything, it was a lesson in real estate 101 business models for the producers. It was during these conversations that it crystallized for the lead producer to choose someone that was a &quot;prototypical&quot; agent who drove a flashy car, who did the traditional model of advertising, and who would look a certain way on television.  They were looking for mediocre although I would say that Deborah Arends has my respect in having garnered excellent market share in the area where she focuses. Having had to wait a couple of days after the airing of the show I hadn&#039;t blogged about it but I&#039;ve been interested to see what everyone else has had to say.

I do believe that Redfin is going to run into some issues down the road and I would be very interested to know what they pay for E&amp;O Insurance premiums and what their deductibles are. If they&#039;re listing for $3k (up from $2k) and they give 2/3 of a buyer&#039;s agent commission back, I&#039;m curious how they&#039;ll cover those costs when a big lawsuit comes their way, and how they&#039;ll continue to pay the stock options, health care, benefits, and other perks they offer to their staff, including agents. Self-employed agents, which is the majority of us out in the real estate world, don&#039;t have VC funds backing us up this way. That was part of my discussion with 60M, of course you can throw a huge discount back when it&#039;s not really your money. Profitability is something that any company should be concerned with and tech companies I worked for in the past had profit margins of upwards of 80-90% depending on the product. Agents have to try and run a successful and thriving business based on a roughly 1-3% range of profit margin in an industry with numerous competitors. I could do 8 deals a day too if I had the staff that Redfin employs and has someone else (VC $) pay for. They&#039;ll also likely stick to larger, more profitable markets and avoid places like small towns in Kansas where they couldn&#039;t possibly afford all of the benefits they offer their staff because the prices of homes can&#039;t sustain them.

Marlow, I&#039;m with you to a point.  Although I don&#039;t mind the alternative business model  as much and it just provides me with a good point of comparison for my own services.  As I told 60M, if I wasn&#039;t an agent and was back in my tech selling days, I would certainly consider Redfin as an option for myself in buying or selling - but I would do that with the knowledge that it would be a calculated risk. I&#039;d have to take on a lot more and if I didn&#039;t know enough to know how to read a title report, order the right inspections, or how to read a Form 17 properly, then I get what I paid for. Although I realize a lot of people are a bit more litigious than I am and somewhere along the way one or more of these folks is going to sue Redfin when they feel screwed, even if they did it to themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one of the other agents that 60 Minutes interviewed prior to choosing Deborah Arends (and I have a feeling my comments to the producers determined their choice of her) I can tell you that it was pretty clear to me that they were approached by Redfin about the story so they could have a national audience of advertising just prior to their launch of a national release of their services. I figure that Glenn Kelman was directing quite a bit of it as I found out that he had given 60 Minutes my name directly &#8211; and I don&#8217;t know him like Ardell seems to. I think he&#8217;s just seen some of my writings on this blog.</p>
<p>The 60 Minutes producers interviewed me for upwards of 6 hours and I went back and forth with the 60 Minutes producers on several topics, including if commissions were negotiable (they are), and they chose to just leave that kind of information out of their story. In fact, if anything, it was a lesson in real estate 101 business models for the producers. It was during these conversations that it crystallized for the lead producer to choose someone that was a &#8220;prototypical&#8221; agent who drove a flashy car, who did the traditional model of advertising, and who would look a certain way on television.  They were looking for mediocre although I would say that Deborah Arends has my respect in having garnered excellent market share in the area where she focuses. Having had to wait a couple of days after the airing of the show I hadn&#8217;t blogged about it but I&#8217;ve been interested to see what everyone else has had to say.</p>
<p>I do believe that Redfin is going to run into some issues down the road and I would be very interested to know what they pay for E&amp;O Insurance premiums and what their deductibles are. If they&#8217;re listing for $3k (up from $2k) and they give 2/3 of a buyer&#8217;s agent commission back, I&#8217;m curious how they&#8217;ll cover those costs when a big lawsuit comes their way, and how they&#8217;ll continue to pay the stock options, health care, benefits, and other perks they offer to their staff, including agents. Self-employed agents, which is the majority of us out in the real estate world, don&#8217;t have VC funds backing us up this way. That was part of my discussion with 60M, of course you can throw a huge discount back when it&#8217;s not really your money. Profitability is something that any company should be concerned with and tech companies I worked for in the past had profit margins of upwards of 80-90% depending on the product. Agents have to try and run a successful and thriving business based on a roughly 1-3% range of profit margin in an industry with numerous competitors. I could do 8 deals a day too if I had the staff that Redfin employs and has someone else (VC $) pay for. They&#8217;ll also likely stick to larger, more profitable markets and avoid places like small towns in Kansas where they couldn&#8217;t possibly afford all of the benefits they offer their staff because the prices of homes can&#8217;t sustain them.</p>
<p>Marlow, I&#8217;m with you to a point.  Although I don&#8217;t mind the alternative business model  as much and it just provides me with a good point of comparison for my own services.  As I told 60M, if I wasn&#8217;t an agent and was back in my tech selling days, I would certainly consider Redfin as an option for myself in buying or selling &#8211; but I would do that with the knowledge that it would be a calculated risk. I&#8217;d have to take on a lot more and if I didn&#8217;t know enough to know how to read a title report, order the right inspections, or how to read a Form 17 properly, then I get what I paid for. Although I realize a lot of people are a bit more litigious than I am and somewhere along the way one or more of these folks is going to sue Redfin when they feel screwed, even if they did it to themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Thompson</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137192</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 01:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137192</guid>
		<description>Kate said: &quot;Redfin isn’t that special. They just have their clients do more work and charge less. Why all the drama?&quot;

God bless you Kate. THAT sums up my thoughts completely. And I&#039;m a Realtor. My own blog post on the Redfin/60Minutes thing was titled &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.phoenixrealestateguy.com/redfin-60-minutes-whatever/344&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Redfin, 60 Minutes, Whatever&quot;&lt;/a&gt; and that&#039;s exactly what I think about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate said: &#8220;Redfin isn’t that special. They just have their clients do more work and charge less. Why all the drama?&#8221;</p>
<p>God bless you Kate. THAT sums up my thoughts completely. And I&#8217;m a Realtor. My own blog post on the Redfin/60Minutes thing was titled <a href="http://www.phoenixrealestateguy.com/redfin-60-minutes-whatever/344" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Redfin, 60 Minutes, Whatever&#8221;</a> and that&#8217;s exactly what I think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Real Central VA - Tracking the Charlottesville and Central VA real estate market and more &#187; What are the limits of the MLS?</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137060</link>
		<dc:creator>Real Central VA - Tracking the Charlottesville and Central VA real estate market and more &#187; What are the limits of the MLS?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 18:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-137060</guid>
		<description>[...] What are the limits of the MLS?   By Jim Duncan  Does listing a property in the MLS prevent any other Realtors from talking or writing about the properties? Spurred by this (very) wide-ranging conversation on RCG, and this comment in particular,  The reality is that talking about someone else&#8217;s listings steals their business. It&#8217;s true. If I write posts about the best properties out there, it is likely some people will call me to buy them. &#8230; Lacking a client relationship, I have no authority to have an opinion about an individual&#8217;s home to the general public. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What are the limits of the MLS?   By Jim Duncan  Does listing a property in the MLS prevent any other Realtors from talking or writing about the properties? Spurred by this (very) wide-ranging conversation on RCG, and this comment in particular,  The reality is that talking about someone else&#8217;s listings steals their business. It&#8217;s true. If I write posts about the best properties out there, it is likely some people will call me to buy them. &#8230; Lacking a client relationship, I have no authority to have an opinion about an individual&#8217;s home to the general public. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-136963</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 14:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-136963</guid>
		<description>re: post57

Kate, well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: post57</p>
<p>Kate, well said.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-136834</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 06:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-136834</guid>
		<description>Biliruben,

LOL!!  I am a Realtor now.  I do not get upset when someone calls me a Realtor.  They do.  But you don&#039;t have to watch you Ps and Q anymore.  I made it easier and re-upped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biliruben,</p>
<p>LOL!!  I am a Realtor now.  I do not get upset when someone calls me a Realtor.  They do.  But you don&#8217;t have to watch you Ps and Q anymore.  I made it easier and re-upped.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-136753</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 02:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/16/stirring-up-the-redfin-dust/#comment-136753</guid>
		<description>At the end of the day, can&#039;t we just accept that Redfin, like many other discount brokers, charges less and offers a level of service that is great for some population of buyers and sellers.  Just as there are different kinds of legal services from online lawyers to discount lawyers to white shoe lawyers, there are all kinds of real estate services.

Redfin isn&#039;t that special.  They just have their clients do more work and charge less.  Why all the drama?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the end of the day, can&#8217;t we just accept that Redfin, like many other discount brokers, charges less and offers a level of service that is great for some population of buyers and sellers.  Just as there are different kinds of legal services from online lawyers to discount lawyers to white shoe lawyers, there are all kinds of real estate services.</p>
<p>Redfin isn&#8217;t that special.  They just have their clients do more work and charge less.  Why all the drama?</p>
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