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	<title>Comments on: So you&#8217;ve decided to buy property with a friend&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/</link>
	<description>Seattle&#039;s Leading Resource for Real Estate Information</description>
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		<title>By: Partitions</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-345427</link>
		<dc:creator>Partitions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-345427</guid>
		<description>Frank, if I were you, I would not build on TIC property until it has been legally divided between the cotenants because of the legal right of partition. Petition to partition is a legal right for JTWROS and tenants in common deed holders, and nothing can be done to stop any tenant from execising that legal right. Partition suits can be very long and expensive, and they usually signal the end of relationships between tenants. The best thing for you to do before building is to visit a local attorney and ask your attorney to draw up an agreement between you and the other tenant about either your buying out the other tenant or your mutually dividing the property between tenants and preparing new deeds. If the other tenant refuses to cooperate, you may wish to investigate the partition process. But please, do not build on that land before the ownership issue is settled.

You did not state who contributed funds to the purchase of the property. If the deed is JTWROS deed, then each tenant owns an equal share of the property regardless to contribution to purchase price. During partition of a JTWROS deed, then each party on the deed would receive an equal share of the proceeds with no credit being given for any excess contribution to purchase price. If the deed is definitely a TIC, then contribution to purchase will be a consideration when the property is partitioned. 

Rules vary from state to state regarding partitions. Some states will require that the property be sold and the proceeds distributed. Some states will allow one party the option to buy out the other party before placing the property up for sale. You can view your state&#039;s legal code online regarding real estate partitins, but a visit to a local attorney is a must. 

Good luck with this, as partition suits usually are very sticky. Just don&#039;t place yourself in the position where you have invested money building on the property and they get slapped with a partition lawsuit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, if I were you, I would not build on TIC property until it has been legally divided between the cotenants because of the legal right of partition. Petition to partition is a legal right for JTWROS and tenants in common deed holders, and nothing can be done to stop any tenant from execising that legal right. Partition suits can be very long and expensive, and they usually signal the end of relationships between tenants. The best thing for you to do before building is to visit a local attorney and ask your attorney to draw up an agreement between you and the other tenant about either your buying out the other tenant or your mutually dividing the property between tenants and preparing new deeds. If the other tenant refuses to cooperate, you may wish to investigate the partition process. But please, do not build on that land before the ownership issue is settled.</p>
<p>You did not state who contributed funds to the purchase of the property. If the deed is JTWROS deed, then each tenant owns an equal share of the property regardless to contribution to purchase price. During partition of a JTWROS deed, then each party on the deed would receive an equal share of the proceeds with no credit being given for any excess contribution to purchase price. If the deed is definitely a TIC, then contribution to purchase will be a consideration when the property is partitioned. </p>
<p>Rules vary from state to state regarding partitions. Some states will require that the property be sold and the proceeds distributed. Some states will allow one party the option to buy out the other party before placing the property up for sale. You can view your state&#8217;s legal code online regarding real estate partitins, but a visit to a local attorney is a must. </p>
<p>Good luck with this, as partition suits usually are very sticky. Just don&#8217;t place yourself in the position where you have invested money building on the property and they get slapped with a partition lawsuit.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-343480</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-343480</guid>
		<description>Frank -- you need to consult an attorney in your area, not via a blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank &#8212; you need to consult an attorney in your area, not via a blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Stabryla</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-343479</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Stabryla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-343479</guid>
		<description>Craig,

I own 46 acres of land with another person as TIC with an undivided equal interest. I want to build a home on the land, are there any legal considerations I must be aware of if I proceed? Does the other co-tenant have any rights to the home or any say-so in the home building process?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig,</p>
<p>I own 46 acres of land with another person as TIC with an undivided equal interest. I want to build a home on the land, are there any legal considerations I must be aware of if I proceed? Does the other co-tenant have any rights to the home or any say-so in the home building process?</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-215154</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 04:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-215154</guid>
		<description>AMR,

Here&#039;s a section from Wikipedia about breaking a Joint Tenants With Right of Survivorship.  They should never be entered into lightly and are much rarer than tenants in common.  I&#039;m glad you brought this up as my Mom and sister bought a house JTWROS and may need to change that due to a change in circumstances.

From Wikipedia:

&quot;Breaking a JTWROS - The co-tenant in property owned by a JTWROS can break the JTWROS as to their interest in the property at any time by conveying their interest in the property to another person. Under the old common law, this required an actual exchange with a straw man - another person who would buy the property from the co-tenant for some nominal consideration, then sell it back to the co-tenant at the same low price.

Many states now permit a joint tenant to break the JTWROS without a straw man, simply by executing a document to that effect - even if that owner does not inform the other owners. In either case, the JTWROS will, again, revert to a tenancy in common as to that owner&#039;s interest in the property.

There is a big problem that is possible with the simple document execution method. In the straw man approach, there are witnesses to the transfer. With the document, there may not be witnesses. With either method, as soon as the break occurs, it works both ways. Because there may not be witnesses, the party with the document could take advantage of that fact and hide the document when the other party dies.

It is important to note, however, that if there are three or more owners, and only one of the owners breaks the JTWROS, the other owners remain in the JTWROS as to each other.&quot;

Of course the internet is no substitute for a local attorney, but hope that sheds some light on the situation, and helps you formulate the questions to ask an attorney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMR,</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a section from Wikipedia about breaking a Joint Tenants With Right of Survivorship.  They should never be entered into lightly and are much rarer than tenants in common.  I&#8217;m glad you brought this up as my Mom and sister bought a house JTWROS and may need to change that due to a change in circumstances.</p>
<p>From Wikipedia:</p>
<p>&#8220;Breaking a JTWROS &#8211; The co-tenant in property owned by a JTWROS can break the JTWROS as to their interest in the property at any time by conveying their interest in the property to another person. Under the old common law, this required an actual exchange with a straw man &#8211; another person who would buy the property from the co-tenant for some nominal consideration, then sell it back to the co-tenant at the same low price.</p>
<p>Many states now permit a joint tenant to break the JTWROS without a straw man, simply by executing a document to that effect &#8211; even if that owner does not inform the other owners. In either case, the JTWROS will, again, revert to a tenancy in common as to that owner&#8217;s interest in the property.</p>
<p>There is a big problem that is possible with the simple document execution method. In the straw man approach, there are witnesses to the transfer. With the document, there may not be witnesses. With either method, as soon as the break occurs, it works both ways. Because there may not be witnesses, the party with the document could take advantage of that fact and hide the document when the other party dies.</p>
<p>It is important to note, however, that if there are three or more owners, and only one of the owners breaks the JTWROS, the other owners remain in the JTWROS as to each other.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course the internet is no substitute for a local attorney, but hope that sheds some light on the situation, and helps you formulate the questions to ask an attorney.</p>
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		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-215053</link>
		<dc:creator>craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-215053</guid>
		<description>AMR -- sorry, I can&#039;t give legal advice via a blog.  Not only am I not familiar with the details of your transaction, but moreover I have no idea whether you are in WA, the only place I am licensed to practice law.  You need to contact an attorney in your area.  Sorry I can&#039;t be of more assistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMR &#8212; sorry, I can&#8217;t give legal advice via a blog.  Not only am I not familiar with the details of your transaction, but moreover I have no idea whether you are in WA, the only place I am licensed to practice law.  You need to contact an attorney in your area.  Sorry I can&#8217;t be of more assistance.</p>
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		<title>By: AMR</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-215052</link>
		<dc:creator>AMR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-215052</guid>
		<description>I own a property with another individual as JTWROS.  I own 80% the other person owns 20% and this was recorded with the purchase.   The individual that owns 20% wants to move his share into a trust.  What is the impact on me and does he have the right to do this without my consent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I own a property with another individual as JTWROS.  I own 80% the other person owns 20% and this was recorded with the purchase.   The individual that owns 20% wants to move his share into a trust.  What is the impact on me and does he have the right to do this without my consent?</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-144016</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 01:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-144016</guid>
		<description>LOL...a week before the wedding and NOT 50/50?  Better to do what I did.  I bought the house in my name only BEFORE the wedding...twice.  And I&#039;ve only been married once :)  I think that&#039;s a little more passive aggressive than explaining to your future spouse why it&#039;s going to be an 80/20 TIC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230;a week before the wedding and NOT 50/50?  Better to do what I did.  I bought the house in my name only BEFORE the wedding&#8230;twice.  And I&#8217;ve only been married once <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   I think that&#8217;s a little more passive aggressive than explaining to your future spouse why it&#8217;s going to be an 80/20 TIC.</p>
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		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-143911</link>
		<dc:creator>craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-143911</guid>
		<description>This is not legal advice -- consult an attorney.

Presumably the TIC Agreement would NOT say 50/50 ownership given that one party put down all the cash.  That&#039;s the point of the Agreement, to establish a percentage ownership consistent with the actual amounts paid by the parties.  Nonetheless, if the parties want 50/50 ownership despite the fact that one party put up all the cash, then I think you&#039;re right, there may be gift tax implications.  In fact, the gift tax may be implicated without a TIC Agmt because the law assumes 50/50 ownership.  Either way, this issue is beyond my level of expertise, and you&#039;re right, an accountant would be helpful (although a tax lawyer might be the best resource).

As an aside, the gift tax is not what people think.  Everyone has a lifetime right to gift $300k+ (not sure of exact number) tax free.  Gifts in a lifetime that exceed that amount incur a tax libility on the part of the giftor.  Any gift in excess of $12k (I believe that&#039;s the current number) count against the lifetime exclusion and must be reported on a gift tax return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not legal advice &#8212; consult an attorney.</p>
<p>Presumably the TIC Agreement would NOT say 50/50 ownership given that one party put down all the cash.  That&#8217;s the point of the Agreement, to establish a percentage ownership consistent with the actual amounts paid by the parties.  Nonetheless, if the parties want 50/50 ownership despite the fact that one party put up all the cash, then I think you&#8217;re right, there may be gift tax implications.  In fact, the gift tax may be implicated without a TIC Agmt because the law assumes 50/50 ownership.  Either way, this issue is beyond my level of expertise, and you&#8217;re right, an accountant would be helpful (although a tax lawyer might be the best resource).</p>
<p>As an aside, the gift tax is not what people think.  Everyone has a lifetime right to gift $300k+ (not sure of exact number) tax free.  Gifts in a lifetime that exceed that amount incur a tax libility on the part of the giftor.  Any gift in excess of $12k (I believe that&#8217;s the current number) count against the lifetime exclusion and must be reported on a gift tax return.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-143900</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-143900</guid>
		<description>Regarding your second paragraph, it seemed to me at the time that if one party (not married) was putting down $300,000 and the TIC said ownership 50/50, that might be a taxable gift from one to the other of $140,000?  I had that concern, and so added Accountant to Legal advises for that reason.  Was that incorrect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your second paragraph, it seemed to me at the time that if one party (not married) was putting down $300,000 and the TIC said ownership 50/50, that might be a taxable gift from one to the other of $140,000?  I had that concern, and so added Accountant to Legal advises for that reason.  Was that incorrect?</p>
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		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-143891</link>
		<dc:creator>craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2007/05/31/so-youve-decided-to-buy-property-with-a-friend/#comment-143891</guid>
		<description>Ardell -- not sure whether you&#039;re joking or not re: the Mensa/LSAT discussion, so I&#039;ll leave that alone.  As a general matter, yes I think agents should be aware of the relevant WACs and can provide them to a client (via link or otherwise).  Probably want to exercise extreme caution, though, in explaining or interpreting the WACs.

As for buying property together prior to marriage -- you&#039;re right, that is a big deal and the buyers should discuss the matter with an attorney before doing so so that they are fully informed.  An accountant&#039;s input would have minimal value, though, as the real issue is the percentage ownership of the property and the implications of using one party&#039;s funds for purchasing the property in both parties&#039; names.

Finally, as for raising red flags and insuring that your client seeks appropriate guidance, but not providing such guidance yourself -- I think that is exactly what is required under the law.  More evidence of the quality of representation that you offer...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardell &#8212; not sure whether you&#8217;re joking or not re: the Mensa/LSAT discussion, so I&#8217;ll leave that alone.  As a general matter, yes I think agents should be aware of the relevant WACs and can provide them to a client (via link or otherwise).  Probably want to exercise extreme caution, though, in explaining or interpreting the WACs.</p>
<p>As for buying property together prior to marriage &#8212; you&#8217;re right, that is a big deal and the buyers should discuss the matter with an attorney before doing so so that they are fully informed.  An accountant&#8217;s input would have minimal value, though, as the real issue is the percentage ownership of the property and the implications of using one party&#8217;s funds for purchasing the property in both parties&#8217; names.</p>
<p>Finally, as for raising red flags and insuring that your client seeks appropriate guidance, but not providing such guidance yourself &#8212; I think that is exactly what is required under the law.  More evidence of the quality of representation that you offer&#8230;</p>
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