“I’m a PC; I’m a Mac
ARDELL on 07 13, 2007
[photopress:thumbnail.jpg,thumb,alignright]Testing my perception vs. reality here. It is my perception, and my previous experience, that no matter how cool a Mac is, and no matter how cool the dude in that commercial is, a Mac just does not appear to be usable for some business applications.
I often hear that a Mac might be better for some graphic applications and “fun” stuff. But truth is, 98% of the time I’m on a computer for business oriented engagement. I don’t use computers to listen to music or to watch videos, unless those videos are business oriented podcasts.
Just when I was starting to think that believing a Mac is not as appropriate for business use might be an outdated concept, I run into this:
“NOTE: You must use an IBM compatible PC and Internet Explorer to access these courses.”
Am I correct that “IBM compatible PC” is another way of saying “not a Mac”? It doesn’t say anything about ever being able to use a different type of computer. No suggestions of how you can take the course if you have a different type of computer. Just a flat out…you MUST use “an IBM compatible PC”.
Am I wrong? Is a Mac included in that description? Are all computers “IBM compatible” except Macs? Do they ever say, “you can access these courses, unless you have a Mac”? Is the Mac the ONLY computer that can’t access them? What’s the scoop here? Is my perception inaccurate?
About the Author: Ardell DellaLoggia
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What they are saying is that you need a PC running Windows. “IBM Compatible” is old early 90’s jargon for a Windows PC. These days though, it’s not accurate since many people run their PCs with Linux.
It used to be true that if you had a Mac, you were cut out of access to a lot of things. But now thanks to the wonder that is emulation software, no more!
A very dear friend of mine is a real estate agent in ABQ. She has her MacBook with Parallels so she can run both MacOS and Windows. She says it’s truly the best of both worlds.
Thanks Holly. I just cut and paste that quote from a national site, huge site, when looking into into a course for agents on changes in Lead Based Paint disclosure laws. What do you think that “warning” was for?
What a pain having to switch back and forth between operating systems. I don’t even like when websites force me to use Internet Explorer, since I am a Firefox guy — and that’s just a minor switch.
I guess you do what you have to do, in order to get the best overall experience.
My guess is the warning is so that people won’t complain when they can’t access the materials with their Mac or Linux PC using Firefox or another browser. They do make it sound dire, don’t they?
There are many flavors of linux PCs that would also be unable to access these courses. There are also non-Windows (Palm OS, Symbian) handheld devices that — while able to surf the internet — would also be unable to access this content. Rather than list every ineligible hardware setup, it’s easier to use the language they used here.
v,
Thanks for the response. It seems anti-trusty to me to continue to offer courses etc. that can ONLY be accessed through X. Am I wrong to think that? Can’t they and shouldn’t they try to offer courses so they are available on all, or at least moreso on a Mac? Or is that Mac’s problem to solve and not theirs?
This is generally a case of software developers choosing to not support anything other than a single platform. The corollary is seeing a web site with ‘Best viewed with X’
“IBM compatible PC” is something of an anachronism, these days. IBM has little to do with such standards any more (relative to the industry as a whole), and “IBM-compatible” does nothing these days to indicate the real issue whether you’re running Windows (98, 2000, XP, Vista?) or Linux or…
(BTW, the term “PC” simply means “personal computer”. Are all of these ads and such arguing that a Mac is not a personal computer? Then what do they suggest that a Mac is? Media Access Controller? Money Access Center? Modern Abacus Contraption?)
Anyway, the real distinction these people care about (but seem unable to articulate) is whether the computer in question is using Windows, Linux, Mac OS, etc., as its operating system (And, sometimes, what version of said operating system is being used.) Even some Mac hardware can run Windows these days, so…
That course warning note you saw probably should, if it wants to be at all useful to anyone, say something more along the lines of:
“NOTE: You must use Microsoft Windows (2000, XP, or Vista) and Internet Explorer (version 6 or later) to access these courses.”
And, of course, maybe consider why its courses need to be so device-restricted. (The most likely reason is a simple attachment to some implementation technology that only works with Windows/IE, and some barrier to considering a less custom and more cross-platform implementation.)
Thogek and all,
Thanks for the detailed response as I’m planning to contact the site owners and give them a copy of this link, rather than try to explain 3rd hand what the issue is.
When I read “IBM compatible” I said to myself, Geez, I haven’t heard that term since I upgraded from my 8/16 Tandy to an Epson back in the early 80s. Is that really a valid comment today?
It is very important that the site owners upgrade their tech wording as almost every Agent in the Country might be taking this class. So I really appreciate the detail in your responses.
I don’t have to understand it, I just have to pass it on to those who will benefit from your advices. So get as techy as you want.
I believe techinically my fridge is IBM compatible….
We had a preacher to come to our church once. HE had retired from IBM for a few years and had moved 12 times in like the last 10 years. He finally told the congression after those last 10 years he finally figured out what IBM stood for = I BEEN MOVED!
Sock Puppet (Athol) = I have heard of but never seen where some people can plug devices like their laptops into their refrigs.
Derek,
Why are you calling Athol a sock puppet? I thought sock puppet was a bad thing?
A Mac really is the best of both worlds, I’ve used both platforms for years in two different fields and, like Holly mentioned, more of the most imperative applications are running on both PCs and Macs. But then again I’m not privy to the applications you are using in the real estate industry. Macs are super-user friendly too in comparison to PCs. And good riddens to Internet Explorer, it’s no match for Firefox!
Because that is what he likes to be called… Have you seen his picture on MyBlogLog? It’s a sock puppet! Jay even banned all “Sock Puppets” from his contest a few months back where he was giving away copies of Seth Godin’s book.
Hi Ardell,
It looks like there is a way to use Locator with a Mac, but not express forms. From NWMLS:
NWMLS web sites and applications require Microsoft Windows and Internet Explorer 6.0 or higher.
Users running Macintosh systems have two access options. Neither option allows access to Xpress Forms.
Virtual PC. Virtual PC provides the ability to run IE 6.0. With Virtual PC, users gain full functionality from all NWMLS applications including XpressForms. This software is available from most computer stores or online. For version descriptions and information about purchasing go to: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/
NOTE: XpressForms currently work with Virtual PC, however this is not guaranteed in future versions of XpressForms.
Citrix Client Access (provided by Rapattoni). This access method provides access to a server hosted by Rapattoni. Once installed, the Citrix client connects to the server and allows access to http://www.nwmls.com except XpressForms.
Known issues have been identified: please review the “Known Issues” before installing the program. “Known Issues” is available from the Citrix main page, http://www.rapattoni.com/citrix at the top next to “Installation Instructions.” If you run into trouble, Installation Support is available by calling NWMLS at 800-541-0455.
To use Rapattoni Citrix access:
Go to http://www.rapattoni.com/citrix
At the top next to “About This Site,” click on “Installation Instructions”
Download and follow the Installation Instructions carefully
If you are trying to access an online training course, the warning is likely the result of the a web programmer who only got paid enough to make the web application work correctly in Internet Explorer. If you play around with IE and Firefox, almost every website looks a little different. Then view them on a Mac with Firefox, and they change again. It can get expensive to validate for all popular platforms. In addition, making the site secure (and guarantying it) is even more difficult.
As far as Mac’s being appropriate, I still have a Windows machine to run my loan origination software, but my Mac does the rest. Do you want to record and edit podcasts with mixing studio tools? Record video podcast from your desk, then edit the video? Build web sites? Create PDF’s? My Mac came standard with the software and hardware to do all of that.
I added a $80 program called iWork, a word processor that integrates perfectly with MS Word. It also includes a Power Point type presentation tool called KeyNote that, IMO, is better than Power Point. Plus, Keynote presentations can be turned into Flash, or Quick Time movies to play over the web, or into a Power Point presentation for your windows toting friends. Keynote can pull music from iTunes, video from iMovie, or the podcast you recorded and edited with Garage Band, and attach them to the presentation. Meaning you could create a video podcast by combining the presentation with a recording of the live presentation. turning it into a movie that others could watch on the web. You could also place movie and audio clips into your live presentations. You can even run a KeyNote presentation from a Video iPod.
Macs also run MS Office, Adobe PhotoShop, even Windows itself. It also networks with Windows machines as well or better than most Windows machines do talking to each other.
I’m no Windows hater. Microsoft is a great company, but Mac’s fit my needs better. Plus, everything just made sense, there was hardly anything to learn while switching. I’m on my second Mac, neither has ever crashed, and viruses are never an issue for me. On top of all that, I do use my Mac for listening to music and watching movies, and yes, it works awesome there as well.
If you have a key piece of software that is only written for Windows, then yeah, you’ll still need it. But if I ran across a company that only offered their services to PC owners, I’d simply look for a competitor.
Back in late 1980s or early 1990s, you’d say “IBM compatable”. However, since IBM doesn’t even make PCs anymore (and lost any influence they had in the PC industry sometime between the release of the PS/2 and OS/2), it’s obsolete terminology.
Now a days, most people use the some variation of aWinTel term. You should say something like a PC running the Windows Operating System (2000 or newer) on an Intel x86 or compatable CPU (1 Ghz or faster).
Technically, everything is IBM compatable these days, since most Linux machines and newer Macs are running on what used to be considered IBM compatable hardware (x86 CPUs).
Our MLS (i-tech) here in Southern California will not run on a Mac, only IBM. Seems to me with all of the technological innovations this would be easy to correct.
Ardell,
based on what I know about your computer experience, you would be WELL served to purchase and use a MAC. they are extremely easy to use and highly intuitive.
I have 11 PC’s around the house and my wife has the Mac… I’m going to get a powerbook just as soon as my Vaio dies.
Synthetik,
I followed your techincial advice before andit was extremely helpful. But someone in the comments said I can’t use Xpressforms on it. That means I can’t do real estate contracts. Is it really worth having to have a second computer just for blogging?
Ardell,
It has been my experience that if you are running a current version of windows and explorer then you would meet the requirements of the statement in your post.
I’ve always been interested in the PC vs Mac discussions. I have some friends that won’t consider a PC and some that won’t consider a Mac. However, my objective is to get work done, and not concern myself with the way the code operates in my laptop – I just don’t care.
I have found through experience that most applications – especially for my business – real estate – is written for a PC first and migrated to a mac second – if at all. So if I want to be on the cutting edge of business (my business) technology then I need to be on a PC.
I don’t play movies, do extensive graphics or listen to my stereo on my computer. Some people do and a MAC is great for that – so I hear….
So I have to suffer with the slowdowns and glitches with windows that are so humorously depicted on the PC/MAC comercials.
Don’t even get me started on the virus claims…..!
I hear this “Mac vs Win” debate over and over – Mac has clearly surpassed Windows in terms of usability, but Linux (more specifically, Ubuntu) easily surpasses Mac.
The simple fact is that ALL of the major operating systems are quite suitable for business use, but one will encounter various problems.
For Windows machines (the term “IBM compatible almost certainly refers to machines running Windows), the problem has been and will continue to be viruses, spyware, malware, security holes, and all the drawbacks of legacy, closed-source systems – incurable bugs. The vast majority of e-mail spam, for instance, originates from windows machines compromised with various botnet worms. One infected computer can send out tens of thousands of spam emails per day; botnets can be composed of hundreds of thousands of computers.
Microsoft itself causes most of the problems for modern operating systems like Mac OSX and Ubuntu (the most popular Linux operating system). Certain website designers, for instance, rely on security deficiencies in Internet Explorer: Where a secure browser simply does not run poorly written and insecure code, Internet Explorer ignores all that and just runs it. Basically, it works because the website is granted far more access to your computer than is safe.
If Microsoft would simply adopt international web standards, virtually all of the problems with mac and linux incompatibility would disappear overnight.
I have heard many times the Mac vs. PC debate and the line gets thinner all of the time. But not enough is being done to allow Mac users to use many of the technology components available for Realtors.
Realtors really do embrace new technology and many jump at the chance to incorporate the newest gizmos into our business. I am seeing more of my Realtor associates buy Macs only to see the frown on their faces when they realize that they can’t easily use Winforms or the MLS without downloading a piece of software called Citrix. This is a cumbersome program at best and does not always function properly. My contention is that the MLS must step up and eliminate the requirement of using Internet Explorer as their browser of choice. As said in another post – Explorer is full of security problems.
In my opinion when the MLS providers and Winforms/Zipforms/Xpressforms hear enough complaints from the real estate community that we want change and support for the Mac users…nothing will change.
It is the big MLS providers like Rapattoni that have failed the Realtor community by monopolizing the technology and their refusal to accommodate the growing Mac using ranks with PC only based systems on Internet Explorer.
I contacted Rapattoni regarding the lack of Mac support in June -2008 and the response I received was the following:
“No major news except to say that ALL NEW development on our MLS, SSO, Public sites, Portals and IMS products are to work with IE and Firefox. We have a migration plan in place to get there over the next two plus years as we upgrade our systems. As you can imagine, there are literally millions of lines of code involved, and even underlying technologies that have to be replaced to accomplish this. It also means that every enhancement and bug fix has to be tested on more browser platforms and versions than just 3 or 4 versions of IE. It is a major technical initiative. It is extremely expensive.”
But here’s the kicker: If you are a broker on our Agent MLS site (password protected) you can’t use Firefox or Safari – BUT if you are a non-member/buyer or seller on the non-restricted public site you can access all the MLS housing information with Firefox & Safari!
Click here: http://vcrdsmls.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqispi.dll?APPNAME=vcrdsmls&PRGNAME=MLSLogin&ARGUMENT=GsM2H3FzlrI%3D
What gives Rapattoni?? Why do you give the public the ability to use their Macs but not the Realtor based community that pay for the system??
There’s NO excuses anymore….
Shortly after writing this post, I had the opportunity to use a Mac for 6 month. My perception was correct. It was virtually usesless for my needs. I love my iPhone and likely could not go back to using anything else. I tried Thunderbird and Gmail for email…but nothing works as well as Outlook for me.
Just reporting my last 12 months of experience since writing the post.
I’m surprised you like the iPhone since it won’t do the keyboxes. Personally I don’t like any of the smartphones that do the keyboxes though. The Centro is probably the most attractive, but I have issues buying another Palm OS device.
Kary,
Once you’ve touched someone’s name to call them…you’ll never go back.
I never used my phone to open doors. How does “the blue box” register you were in the home if you aren’t updating a keypad? Do you still have to update a keypad so the listing agent gets the email that you entered their listing?
I’ve used every version of Outlook – I switched to Thunderbird and never looked back. In my experience, Outlook has always been flaky – crashing, locking up, throwing obscure error codes, randomly duplicating all my messages, incompatible with my free, “throwaway” accounts from Hotmail, and Yahoo
Thunderbird allows plugins, which can be incredibly powerful little tools – the webmail plugin, for example, allows thunderbird to treat hotmail and yahoo web-based accounts in the same way as any other e-mail.
The only problem I have with using a non-windows machine (I use Ubuntu) is that many websites use insecure implementations of javascript that compliant browsers refuse to render due to the risk. The giant security hole that is Internet Explorer renders anything, regardless of how insecure, potentially dangerous, or outright malicious that code might be.
Aside from that, I can do far more with Linux (and BSD, and Unix, and to a lesser extent, Mac) than I can with Windows. There are open-source alternatives for virtually all commercial software packages, and they are all available for download from a simple menu-based system.
When I must use Windows, I use OpenOffice.org for word processing, Firefox wherever possible (and I complain to every webmaster that demands IE) and Thunderbird for e-mail.
You update the phone (or PDA). It’s basically the same as a keypad (except you can update wirelessly), and you can do other things too, like program your lockbox showing hours and read the showings when you’re at the lockbox. It can also give you a list of all NWMLS agents and their contact information, and have listings for certain areas with certain criteria. Just using a keybox is very limiting.
But, because I don’t like the smartphones, I still use a PDA instead of a smartphone for the keybox functions.
1) I rarely change the lockbox showing hours…never really.
2) I get an email everytime there is a showing and get reports all day on my computer, so I don’t have to go to the lockbox to get a reading (in fact I would think it more “limiting” to have to go visit the blue box on the property every day)
3) I have immediate access to all agents via the Supra report and mls system.
I don’t find the keybox method limiting at all…in fact I find it superior to use my laptop vs. a small device for this important info. I can email it to my clients when I pull it via laptop vs a PDA device.
1. Clients appreciate the choice. They like to have some control over when people can come into their house. Some don’t mind people coming in at 8:00 a.m. because they’re gone before then. Some like different weekend hours. It’s all about client choice. With a keybox you cannot serve the client to that extent.
2. I don’t have to go to a listing to get it either, but I can get it faster (e.g. before they update) by going to the listing. Some agents might not update their key for days, and so if I’m at a listing I’ll always check it for recent showings. Also, some agents don’t leave cards occasionally, and so on a vacant listing you’ll know to check all the doors/windows when you happen to be there, rather than having to make a return trip.
“With a keybox you cannot serve the client to that extent.” Sure you can. You think we couldn’t change keybox times before? Personally I think it’s terrible that the owner can’t get into the box. Very Agent-Centric to have moved to a method that the owner could not control.
I’ve worked under many methods of access over 18 years, and sellers should demand the right and control of their homes moreso than the current method allows.
Any owner should be able to get the box OFF if they want to have sex, as example…
Off to do my Open House…
Ardell, are you talking about something besides a Supra keybox, or is there a way to change the time using the Internet or an ordinary keypad? I know you can check the time settings using the Internet, but I’m unaware of any means to change them. And if you could, I’d imagine that would require you to go out there with your keypad, because they aren’t going to download changed times to every agents’ keypad.
Kary,
As I said, I’m not a big fan of changing the preset times of the keybox. Reminds me of the time the agent had it preset to no earlier than 10 a.m. The place was vacant by the time it sold. The agent was off in Eastern Washington, and we had to sit outside for an hour with the home inspector and buyer client for a 9 a.m. inspection.
Easy enough to put “no showings before 10 a.m.” in the agent instructions without playing with the hardware. But if I ever find the need to have the time set differently, I’ve always lived close to the mls office. You bring the box and they set the times. When I worked at Green Lake I could walk over to the old Ravenna Office which I don’t think is there anymore. I live in Kirkland. Easy enough to shoot over to the mls office from here.
If you preset the times to other than the norm, and the owner decides to say OK to a showing outisde of those times when they get a showing call, the agent can’t get in.
More often when people want to control the times agents can and can’t get in, they also want flexibility and the option to “place keybox out” for showings. Some like to attach it on a chain with a lock that they have a key to, so they have more control. But I haven’t had an owner want to change the presets. I guess If that were a constant issue, I’d use my phone.
I’ve used several different types of keypads and entry systems over the years, but they were all Supra. I haven’t had much problem with agents not adhering to the showng instructions and trying to barge in without an appointment on an occupied property.
Well my clients like to have the choice, and if it’s unusual I’ll note it in the agent only remarks.
BTW, on the older boxes a few weeks out of the year the standard time isn’t the standard time with the change to daylight savings time.
Finally, if you happen to be there outside the “normal” hours you wouldn’t be able to get into your own listing without a PDA/Smartphone. I’ve had that happen on more than one occasion.
Bottom line is I can’t imagine not having a PDA or Smartphone to control the boxes. Taking it to the MLS to change it isn’t even a close second choice.
Kary,
We always get a notice when the standard time changes…no biggee. For a long time many of my listings have been vacant…so time of showing is not an issue. That could be changing…though not at present for me.
To each his own. Personally I think encouraging clients to restrict access as a matter of course is not a good idea in this market. They can always say no on any given day to a certain time without ruling out showings.
We all know that those that say no showings after x time, or no showings between x and x for child naptime, or “Never On A Sunday” may have been OK in the hot market…but not so today.
Actually the NWMLS did a very poor job this year of warning people of the issues with the older keyboxes. They mentioned the change in time, but not that older boxes wouldn’t change over at the correct date (or which way the error would be, which took some figuring out).
I haven’t had many problems with access issues in 18 years, Kary. YMMV
The most notable was when we waited outside for 15 minutes because someone in the house kept saying, “I’ll be right there” when I rang the bell. It was the parrot.