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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t Sign That Listing Contract!</title>
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		<title>By: What Drives an Active Online Community? &#124; Seattle Real Estate ~ Rain City Guide</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-322615</link>
		<dc:creator>What Drives an Active Online Community? &#124; Seattle Real Estate ~ Rain City Guide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-322615</guid>
		<description>[...] Don&#8217;t Sign That Listing Contract! by Ardell [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Don&#8217;t Sign That Listing Contract! by Ardell [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Commission-Based Fee Struture: it&#8217;s Bad for Buyers &#124; Rain City Guide &#124; A Seattle Real Estate Blog...</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-313095</link>
		<dc:creator>The Commission-Based Fee Struture: it&#8217;s Bad for Buyers &#124; Rain City Guide &#124; A Seattle Real Estate Blog...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-313095</guid>
		<description>[...] [Sorry, no links or cites here, but I think the following historical perspective is undisputed:] Originally, real estate agents (and brokers, referred to collectively in this post as &#8220;agents&#8221;) represented only the seller. The &#8220;listing&#8221; agent signed the contract with the seller that entitled the agent to a commission. This agent then informed other agents about the house now available for purchase by posting on the Multiple Listing Service. Another agent, the &#8220;selling&#8221; agent, would see the listing and show it to a potential buyer. Even though the selling agent then assisted the buyer in purchasing the property, she actually &#8212; and legally &#8212; worked for and owed a duty to the seller only. Because the &#8220;selling&#8221; agent assisted with the sale of the property, the &#8220;listing&#8221; agent would then split the commission paid upon the sale. The system made sense, as only the seller paid the commission to the listing agent, the listing agent then offered to share the commission as means of finding a buyer, and both agents eventually assisted with the sale. Indeed, some agents today still look at commissions in this light. As James Melanowski, an agent, said in a recent comment (#20):  There is one commission. I get paid x% to sell your property and with that x% I will do everything in my power to do my job. That may include paying a buyer’s agent, it may not. I may want to pay that agent y%, y-1/2%, or y+1/2% to bring that buyer to the table. The point is, x% is what you pay ME and it is to do with as I please. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [Sorry, no links or cites here, but I think the following historical perspective is undisputed:] Originally, real estate agents (and brokers, referred to collectively in this post as &#8220;agents&#8221;) represented only the seller. The &#8220;listing&#8221; agent signed the contract with the seller that entitled the agent to a commission. This agent then informed other agents about the house now available for purchase by posting on the Multiple Listing Service. Another agent, the &#8220;selling&#8221; agent, would see the listing and show it to a potential buyer. Even though the selling agent then assisted the buyer in purchasing the property, she actually &#8212; and legally &#8212; worked for and owed a duty to the seller only. Because the &#8220;selling&#8221; agent assisted with the sale of the property, the &#8220;listing&#8221; agent would then split the commission paid upon the sale. The system made sense, as only the seller paid the commission to the listing agent, the listing agent then offered to share the commission as means of finding a buyer, and both agents eventually assisted with the sale. Indeed, some agents today still look at commissions in this light. As James Melanowski, an agent, said in a recent comment (#20):  There is one commission. I get paid x% to sell your property and with that x% I will do everything in my power to do my job. That may include paying a buyer’s agent, it may not. I may want to pay that agent y%, y-1/2%, or y+1/2% to bring that buyer to the table. The point is, x% is what you pay ME and it is to do with as I please. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Giving up the commission &#171; A Broker&#8217;s Perspective</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-303352</link>
		<dc:creator>Giving up the commission &#171; A Broker&#8217;s Perspective</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-303352</guid>
		<description>[...] Giving up the&#160;commission Filed under: Seattle real estate, commissions &#8212; Tags: brokerage, commission, greenlake, listing agent, Seattle real estate &#8212; seattlebroker @ 9:45 am   There has been much discussion over at Rain City Guide about agents&#8217; commissions (this link is to just one of many posts on that blog).  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Giving up the&nbsp;commission Filed under: Seattle real estate, commissions &#8212; Tags: brokerage, commission, greenlake, listing agent, Seattle real estate &#8212; seattlebroker @ 9:45 am   There has been much discussion over at Rain City Guide about agents&#8217; commissions (this link is to just one of many posts on that blog).  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: leanne finlay</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-302624</link>
		<dc:creator>leanne finlay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-302624</guid>
		<description>Will we have stable markets in the future, or hot and cold markets?

Commissions are always negotiable between the parties - ie, the seller and his agent, and the buyer and his agent.

The buyer is not a party to the listing contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will we have stable markets in the future, or hot and cold markets?</p>
<p>Commissions are always negotiable between the parties &#8211; ie, the seller and his agent, and the buyer and his agent.</p>
<p>The buyer is not a party to the listing contract.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-302007</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-302007</guid>
		<description>Ardell wrote:  &quot;The amount recommended should be the lowest amount at which the seller will be successful at his objective. The agent for the seller should be adjusting their advices based on market conditions. Yet the concensus suggests that the % is an expectation regardless of price and or market conditions.&quot;

I&#039;ll go back to the Nordstrom selling socks analogy.  This is not selling socks.  You only need to sell once, and that one event isn&#039;t likely to happen on the first day.  That affects the decision.

One thing I don&#039;t thing agents take into account enough is that selling is stressful.  Anything that is likely to increase the duration of that stress is not likely to be appreciated.  That means doing everything you can to shorten the process.  The commission is just part of that.  Pricing and condition of the property are other parts of the equation.  But when you&#039;re done with all the variables you want something reasonably likely to get acceptable results within a reasonable period of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardell wrote:  &#8220;The amount recommended should be the lowest amount at which the seller will be successful at his objective. The agent for the seller should be adjusting their advices based on market conditions. Yet the concensus suggests that the % is an expectation regardless of price and or market conditions.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll go back to the Nordstrom selling socks analogy.  This is not selling socks.  You only need to sell once, and that one event isn&#8217;t likely to happen on the first day.  That affects the decision.</p>
<p>One thing I don&#8217;t thing agents take into account enough is that selling is stressful.  Anything that is likely to increase the duration of that stress is not likely to be appreciated.  That means doing everything you can to shorten the process.  The commission is just part of that.  Pricing and condition of the property are other parts of the equation.  But when you&#8217;re done with all the variables you want something reasonably likely to get acceptable results within a reasonable period of time.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301998</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301998</guid>
		<description>Kary,

So why when the expectation was an offer within 30 days, and often more than one offer within a week, was the amount recommended not less?

The industry fails when it does not adjust due to strong market conditions, and yet holds market conditions to blame in a weaker market.

The amount recommended should be the lowest amount at which the seller will be successful at his objective.  The agent for the seller should be adjusting their advices based on market conditions.  Yet the concensus suggests that the % is an expectation regardless of price and or market conditions.

Let&#039;s call $15,000 per the bogey and the lowest $6,000.  Wouldn&#039;t that place a cap at $24,000 for a balanced result?  Why should it not have a cap the same as most agents demand a cap on total amounts paid to a broker?  If there is no limit to what you can charge, then why is there a limit to what your broker can charge an agent in a year&#039;s time?  Where is the &quot;practice what you preach&quot; in that?

A minimum and a maximum.  A higher % until you hit the minimum and a lower one past the minimum to the cap?

Whatever the logic beyond &quot;You HAVE TO offer THIS&quot;, the industry cannot expect the public to perceive them differently and well, if the chips always end up on the agent side of the table regardless of market conditions and price.  

It&#039;s OK to do that, but it&#039;s not OK to then wonder why the public perceives us as it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kary,</p>
<p>So why when the expectation was an offer within 30 days, and often more than one offer within a week, was the amount recommended not less?</p>
<p>The industry fails when it does not adjust due to strong market conditions, and yet holds market conditions to blame in a weaker market.</p>
<p>The amount recommended should be the lowest amount at which the seller will be successful at his objective.  The agent for the seller should be adjusting their advices based on market conditions.  Yet the concensus suggests that the % is an expectation regardless of price and or market conditions.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s call $15,000 per the bogey and the lowest $6,000.  Wouldn&#8217;t that place a cap at $24,000 for a balanced result?  Why should it not have a cap the same as most agents demand a cap on total amounts paid to a broker?  If there is no limit to what you can charge, then why is there a limit to what your broker can charge an agent in a year&#8217;s time?  Where is the &#8220;practice what you preach&#8221; in that?</p>
<p>A minimum and a maximum.  A higher % until you hit the minimum and a lower one past the minimum to the cap?</p>
<p>Whatever the logic beyond &#8220;You HAVE TO offer THIS&#8221;, the industry cannot expect the public to perceive them differently and well, if the chips always end up on the agent side of the table regardless of market conditions and price.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s OK to do that, but it&#8217;s not OK to then wonder why the public perceives us as it does.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301965</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301965</guid>
		<description>I think if you look at sales over $2,000,000, there are a lot of them that only offered 2.5%.  But to answer your question, agents with buyers looking for $2,000,000+ homes are more valuable than agents representing buyers looking at $200,000+ homes.  That&#039;s because that type of buyer is more scarce--supply and demand.

As to lower priced properties, and why it&#039;s not 1.5%, it&#039;s because the others are mainly offering 3%.  There&#039;s a concept in pricing goods of prices being sticky downward, meaning they go up faster than they go down.  This is slightly different than that, but with similar effect.  As long as most people are offering X% to a buyer&#039;s agent, it&#039;s risky to offer less.

But this isn&#039;t the type of market where you&#039;d expect it to go down.  That would be a hot market, where even a good percentage of FSBOs are successful.  The slower the market, the more the risk in offering less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you look at sales over $2,000,000, there are a lot of them that only offered 2.5%.  But to answer your question, agents with buyers looking for $2,000,000+ homes are more valuable than agents representing buyers looking at $200,000+ homes.  That&#8217;s because that type of buyer is more scarce&#8211;supply and demand.</p>
<p>As to lower priced properties, and why it&#8217;s not 1.5%, it&#8217;s because the others are mainly offering 3%.  There&#8217;s a concept in pricing goods of prices being sticky downward, meaning they go up faster than they go down.  This is slightly different than that, but with similar effect.  As long as most people are offering X% to a buyer&#8217;s agent, it&#8217;s risky to offer less.</p>
<p>But this isn&#8217;t the type of market where you&#8217;d expect it to go down.  That would be a hot market, where even a good percentage of FSBOs are successful.  The slower the market, the more the risk in offering less.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301906</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301906</guid>
		<description>Leanne and Kary,

If the expectation of agents was 1.5% for homes priced over a million dollars, then that is what Kary would recommend.  Kary recommends what agents expect.

So why does the expectation of the whole never change whether it is a hot market or a slow market or a $250,000 condo or a $1.2M house?

Why does the expectation, and thus the amount needed for a seller to be successful, remain a constant for so many years regardless of home prices or market conditions?

Why can&#039;t the expectation be 3% or $15,000 whichever is less, or some other formula that appears more reasonable?

Why does every seller in the Country, by and large, seem to be given the same advice that Kary is giving?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leanne and Kary,</p>
<p>If the expectation of agents was 1.5% for homes priced over a million dollars, then that is what Kary would recommend.  Kary recommends what agents expect.</p>
<p>So why does the expectation of the whole never change whether it is a hot market or a slow market or a $250,000 condo or a $1.2M house?</p>
<p>Why does the expectation, and thus the amount needed for a seller to be successful, remain a constant for so many years regardless of home prices or market conditions?</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t the expectation be 3% or $15,000 whichever is less, or some other formula that appears more reasonable?</p>
<p>Why does every seller in the Country, by and large, seem to be given the same advice that Kary is giving?</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301886</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301886</guid>
		<description>Right.  The seller that uses the MLS has options, but especially in this market you don&#039;t want to pick options that will lessen your chances.  People do it and succeed, so it&#039;s not like it makes it impossible.  I&#039;m just saying they aren&#039;t risks worth taking, IMHO.  And that&#039;s especially true of the variable commission because the chance of that benefiting the seller is so low.

The buyer has options too, but those really should be options he discusses with his own agent.  Anything else is problematic.

Back when we were looking for our own house last year, we didn&#039;t generally make offers that reduced the SOC.  That&#039;s because we didn&#039;t think it would necessarily help us.  The difference is we&#039;d get the SOC, where an ordinary buyer wouldn&#039;t.  For a buyer to be certain, they really need to go the rebate route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right.  The seller that uses the MLS has options, but especially in this market you don&#8217;t want to pick options that will lessen your chances.  People do it and succeed, so it&#8217;s not like it makes it impossible.  I&#8217;m just saying they aren&#8217;t risks worth taking, IMHO.  And that&#8217;s especially true of the variable commission because the chance of that benefiting the seller is so low.</p>
<p>The buyer has options too, but those really should be options he discusses with his own agent.  Anything else is problematic.</p>
<p>Back when we were looking for our own house last year, we didn&#8217;t generally make offers that reduced the SOC.  That&#8217;s because we didn&#8217;t think it would necessarily help us.  The difference is we&#8217;d get the SOC, where an ordinary buyer wouldn&#8217;t.  For a buyer to be certain, they really need to go the rebate route.</p>
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		<title>By: leanne finlay</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301858</link>
		<dc:creator>leanne finlay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/2008/04/03/dont-sign-that-listing-contract/#comment-301858</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that is what Kary is saying at all.  He&#039;s saying it is his recommendation, and the seller can choose based on their discussion of choices, with pros and cons

The buyer chooses only with his purchase and sales agreement terms, ie, his offer, or his own negotiations with his buyers agent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that is what Kary is saying at all.  He&#8217;s saying it is his recommendation, and the seller can choose based on their discussion of choices, with pros and cons</p>
<p>The buyer chooses only with his purchase and sales agreement terms, ie, his offer, or his own negotiations with his buyers agent.</p>
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