Comments on: Attack of the Killer Assessments http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/ Seattle's Leading Resource for Real Estate Information Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:20:19 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: John http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-325590 John Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:22:24 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-325590 21.Can't use existing market values of Homes being sold in your nieborhood of Snohomish County to appeal your assessment. I believe that is what I read in the appeal paperwork. What else do you use? 21.Can’t use existing market values of Homes being sold in your nieborhood of Snohomish County to appeal your assessment. I believe that is what I read in the appeal paperwork. What else do you use?

]]> By: 52% Appreciation in Kirkland This Year??? | Seattle Real Estate ~ Rain City Guide http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-324034 52% Appreciation in Kirkland This Year??? | Seattle Real Estate ~ Rain City Guide Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:05:18 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-324034 [...] 52% Appreciation in Kirkland This Year??? August 29, 2008 This is fun.  Just got my new Tax Assessment, and like Robbie, I am clearly puzzled.  Robbie’s Total Assessment went up 10% and he freaked out.  Well Robbie, my total assessment went up 40.6% this year.  NOW let’s talk about the Attack of the Killer Assessments. [...] [...] 52% Appreciation in Kirkland This Year??? August 29, 2008 This is fun.  Just got my new Tax Assessment, and like Robbie, I am clearly puzzled.  Robbie’s Total Assessment went up 10% and he freaked out.  Well Robbie, my total assessment went up 40.6% this year.  NOW let’s talk about the Attack of the Killer Assessments. [...]

]]> By: old guy http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323911 old guy Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:10:25 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323911 I called to complain about my county value and the county worker on the phone said, well you can contest it, but... they just may dig enough and find a reason to raise it even more. yike. that was a direct threat from a paid county servant! (but after i thought about it they may not have ment it as a threat, just stating it as a kown fact) I have noticed on the same block a huge difference in valuation, for no apperent reason, i was told that the person that lived there once must of said the wrong thing to a county worker once... yike i belive it after my first verbal threat! I called to complain about my county value and the county worker on the phone said, well you can contest it, but… they just may dig enough and find a reason to raise it even more. yike. that was a direct threat from a paid county servant! (but after i thought about it they may not have ment it as a threat, just stating it as a kown fact)
I have noticed on the same block a huge difference in valuation, for no apperent reason, i was told that the person that lived there once must of said the wrong thing to a county worker once… yike i belive it after my first verbal threat!

]]> By: ARDELL http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323794 ARDELL Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:58:13 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323794 LVT Fan, First, sorry for calling you LTV Fan earlier. I have Loan To Value on the brain. Interesting stats. Back in L.A. the structures for Oceanfront property were such a negligible portion of value, they were like a house of cards. People thought nothing of tearing down a perfectly good house to build their dream home, as the value was always mostly in the land. Here in Kirkland the land values have gone down a bit, as demand for building lots has decreased. While land doesn't "depreciate" the fair market value can go down based on supply and demand factors. LVT Fan,

First, sorry for calling you LTV Fan earlier. I have Loan To Value on the brain.

Interesting stats. Back in L.A. the structures for Oceanfront property were such a negligible portion of value, they were like a house of cards. People thought nothing of tearing down a perfectly good house to build their dream home, as the value was always mostly in the land.

Here in Kirkland the land values have gone down a bit, as demand for building lots has decreased. While land doesn’t “depreciate” the fair market value can go down based on supply and demand factors.

]]> By: LVTfan http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323791 LVTfan Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:42:29 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323791 That land has appreciated since 2003, so the $123,000, which might have been 1/nth of the original purchase price of the unimproved mega parcel, is no longer relevant. It is very normal for the land to appreciate, while the houses depreciate. Actually, I suspect that new houses may rise in value for a couple of years, while homeowners install landscaping, closet fixtures, and all the miscellaneous improvements that didn't come with the house straight from the builder. But soon after that, depreciation should start to kick in. It seems pretty typical that a new house sells for about 4 to 5 times what the builder paid for the land. But from that point on, the land share of real estate value starts to increase, as land appreciates (or remains steady) and buildings depreciate. A 2006 FRB study found that across 46 major metro markets, land represented 50.9% of the value of single family homes in 2004. For Seattle metro, the figure was 62.6%. (San Francisco was 88.5% LV, Portland 57.9%, San Antonio 25.8%, Oklahoma City 23.3%.) That land has appreciated since 2003, so the $123,000, which might have been 1/nth of the original purchase price of the unimproved mega parcel, is no longer relevant. It is very normal for the land to appreciate, while the houses depreciate. Actually, I suspect that new houses may rise in value for a couple of years, while homeowners install landscaping, closet fixtures, and all the miscellaneous improvements that didn’t come with the house straight from the builder. But soon after that, depreciation should start to kick in.

It seems pretty typical that a new house sells for about 4 to 5 times what the builder paid for the land. But from that point on, the land share of real estate value starts to increase, as land appreciates (or remains steady) and buildings depreciate.

A 2006 FRB study found that across 46 major metro markets, land represented 50.9% of the value of single family homes in 2004. For Seattle metro, the figure was 62.6%. (San Francisco was 88.5% LV, Portland 57.9%, San Antonio 25.8%, Oklahoma City 23.3%.)

]]> By: ARDELL http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323775 ARDELL Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:36:22 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323775 LTV Fan, Robbie lives in a neighborhood of large homes on small lots built in 2003 or so. So I would not expect to see any teardowns. I think they took the mega parcel that existed before these homes were built, and broke it down to $123,000 for the land, attributing most of the improvement to the home itself. But as the home depreciates, they would lose too much in taxes by keeping the land value so low. I doubt there is much of a comp for these lot sizes in that area, since most of the homes on lots that size are newer and never bought separately as lots. To get approval for that size home on that size of lot, it has to be a Planned Development. LTV Fan,

Robbie lives in a neighborhood of large homes on small lots built in 2003 or so. So I would not expect to see any teardowns.

I think they took the mega parcel that existed before these homes were built, and broke it down to $123,000 for the land, attributing most of the improvement to the home itself. But as the home depreciates, they would lose too much in taxes by keeping the land value so low.

I doubt there is much of a comp for these lot sizes in that area, since most of the homes on lots that size are newer and never bought separately as lots. To get approval for that size home on that size of lot, it has to be a Planned Development.

]]> By: LVTfan http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323761 LVTfan Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:59:01 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323761 Has your neighborhood seen a lot of teardowns in recent years? A transaction followed by a teardown is a signal to a good assessor that the land value was 100% of the transaction price (actually somewhat more, because there is a cost associated with tearing down the old house and hauling away the material, which could logically be added to the transaction price to calculate the land price. If most of the houses of a certain style (where I live, it is raised ranches) get demolished, the assessor may rightly conclude that that style is not highly valued, and those with that style will see some decrease in their house valuation. The land, though, may still be appreciating, particularly if they are in good school districts, near transportation, good medical care, a park, etc., because people value the neighborhood. Houses do not appreciate; and even most remodeling projects do not add as much to the value of a house as they cost. Houses depreciate, at roughly 1.5% per year. My guess is that your assessor is starting to do better assessments, based on how the market is valuing land and older structures. Valuations are done as of a certain date, usually relying on one or two years' worth of recent transactions (and more weight is usually given to the most recent transactions). If the market has changed since that date, your current market value might be less than it was on the date of the assessment, but that doesn't make the assessment invalid; it could very well have been an accurate valuation as of that date. And your share of the tax burden is just. But assessments should be updated every year or two, not permitted to get to be several years out of date. If one neighborhood's sites are appreciating, and another's are falling, old valuations will result in an unjust sharing of the costs of providing local services. Has your neighborhood seen a lot of teardowns in recent years? A transaction followed by a teardown is a signal to a good assessor that the land value was 100% of the transaction price (actually somewhat more, because there is a cost associated with tearing down the old house and hauling away the material, which could logically be added to the transaction price to calculate the land price. If most of the houses of a certain style (where I live, it is raised ranches) get demolished, the assessor may rightly conclude that that style is not highly valued, and those with that style will see some decrease in their house valuation. The land, though, may still be appreciating, particularly if they are in good school districts, near transportation, good medical care, a park, etc., because people value the neighborhood.

Houses do not appreciate; and even most remodeling projects do not add as much to the value of a house as they cost. Houses depreciate, at roughly 1.5% per year. My guess is that your assessor is starting to do better assessments, based on how the market is valuing land and older structures.

Valuations are done as of a certain date, usually relying on one or two years’ worth of recent transactions (and more weight is usually given to the most recent transactions). If the market has changed since that date, your current market value might be less than it was on the date of the assessment, but that doesn’t make the assessment invalid; it could very well have been an accurate valuation as of that date. And your share of the tax burden is just.

But assessments should be updated every year or two, not permitted to get to be several years out of date. If one neighborhood’s sites are appreciating, and another’s are falling, old valuations will result in an unjust sharing of the costs of providing local services.

]]> By: Kary L. Krismer http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323758 Kary L. Krismer Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:44:19 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323758 I've seen a handful of Snohomish County properties that were appraised over value. The first was over a year ago, and they were raising the assessment for the next year even more! I’ve seen a handful of Snohomish County properties that were appraised over value. The first was over a year ago, and they were raising the assessment for the next year even more!

]]> By: Tim http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323757 Tim Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:15:22 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323757 Robbie, Just an anecdote, but we appealed and will consider continuing it going forward for the next couple years until our market correction is fairly exhausted. Our assessment was dropped $100,000, which saves us a sliver under $1K /yr. And, when the appraiser came to visit me I was fairly clear in arguing the state of the market (including updated comps), never mind the irritation I have when close neighbors who have significantly larger homes and paying one to two thousand LESS in property taxes than me. I'm pretty sure assessors offices know the valuation system can be fraught with problems and clerical boo-boos. Surprisingly, the feedback from the appraiser was that while they were busy, they were not slammed with appeals. This is Snohomish Co. though. Robbie,

Just an anecdote, but we appealed and will consider continuing it going forward for the next couple years until our market correction is fairly exhausted. Our assessment was dropped $100,000, which saves us a sliver under $1K /yr. And, when the appraiser came to visit me I was fairly clear in arguing the state of the market (including updated comps), never mind the irritation I have when close neighbors who have significantly larger homes and paying one to two thousand LESS in property taxes than me. I’m pretty sure assessors offices know the valuation system can be fraught with problems and clerical boo-boos.

Surprisingly, the feedback from the appraiser was that while they were busy, they were not slammed with appeals.

This is Snohomish Co. though.

]]> By: Kary L. Krismer http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323751 Kary L. Krismer Sun, 24 Aug 2008 05:33:38 +0000 http://raincityguide.com/2008/08/23/attack-of-the-killer-assessments/#comment-323751 Robbie, other things affect the total tax rate--mainly levies for schools, partks and such. Robbie, other things affect the total tax rate–mainly levies for schools, partks and such.

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