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	<title>Comments on: Bailout Bill Agreement Tentatively Reached</title>
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		<title>By: BombayTrader</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325898</link>
		<dc:creator>BombayTrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325898</guid>
		<description>&quot;If the government loses money, the financial industry will pay back the taxpayers.&quot;
&quot;Guarantees taxpayers are repaid in full — if other protections have not actually produced a profit&quot;

I like this brilliant idea from Nancy Pelosi. Apparently, we are here today because the financial industry cannot pay its current obligations nor honor its counter-party commitments. 
So, let me think, 6 months down the line, if the government loses money, it plans to initiate a huge-margin call on the financial industry. 
The government intends to initiate a run of the banks - yes, this &quot;protection&quot; is going to work, indeed. :-)
-----

&quot;Helps save small businesses that need credit by aiding small community banks hurt by the mortgage crisis—allowing these banks to deduct losses from investments in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stocks&quot;

This seems to be nonsensical as the provision already exists in the IRS tax code ? 
If a bank does not have a profit for the financial year, it is not taxed. If it has a loss on its books from any stock purchases / assets, it is automatically deducted against the income - and only the net income is taxed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the government loses money, the financial industry will pay back the taxpayers.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Guarantees taxpayers are repaid in full — if other protections have not actually produced a profit&#8221;</p>
<p>I like this brilliant idea from Nancy Pelosi. Apparently, we are here today because the financial industry cannot pay its current obligations nor honor its counter-party commitments.<br />
So, let me think, 6 months down the line, if the government loses money, it plans to initiate a huge-margin call on the financial industry.<br />
The government intends to initiate a run of the banks &#8211; yes, this &#8220;protection&#8221; is going to work, indeed. <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;Helps save small businesses that need credit by aiding small community banks hurt by the mortgage crisis—allowing these banks to deduct losses from investments in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stocks&#8221;</p>
<p>This seems to be nonsensical as the provision already exists in the IRS tax code ?<br />
If a bank does not have a profit for the financial year, it is not taxed. If it has a loss on its books from any stock purchases / assets, it is automatically deducted against the income &#8211; and only the net income is taxed.</p>
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		<title>By: BombayTrader</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325897</link>
		<dc:creator>BombayTrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325897</guid>
		<description>The 3-month and 6-month Treasuries auctions tomorrow will be interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 3-month and 6-month Treasuries auctions tomorrow will be interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325870</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325870</guid>
		<description>8 should say the government would be paying less for each asset.  That means that the ultimate cost would be less, or that they&#039;d be more likely to turn a profit, even without an equity stake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8 should say the government would be paying less for each asset.  That means that the ultimate cost would be less, or that they&#8217;d be more likely to turn a profit, even without an equity stake.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325868</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325868</guid>
		<description>The thing is, with more entities able AND willing to sell, the government would be paid less.  Things that make the government pay more turn this from a bailout of the economy to a bailout of firms that are hurting.

I too would like to see the proposal.  I&#039;m not real big on the insurance idea, because I think that will cost more, but perhaps doing some of each would make it less inflationary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, with more entities able AND willing to sell, the government would be paid less.  Things that make the government pay more turn this from a bailout of the economy to a bailout of firms that are hurting.</p>
<p>I too would like to see the proposal.  I&#8217;m not real big on the insurance idea, because I think that will cost more, but perhaps doing some of each would make it less inflationary.</p>
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		<title>By: Jillayne Schlicke</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325867</link>
		<dc:creator>Jillayne Schlicke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325867</guid>
		<description>Good morning biliruben and Kary,

In terms of equity stakes in the companies, a few of the banks that are going to go under anyways, we&#039;ll call those first in line, sell their toxic waste to the government, marked down to say, 60 cents on the dollar instead of more like 20 cents on the dollar in the open market. 

Now the other, somewhat stable banks can sell their loans at 60 cents on the dollar in the open market, now that a price point has been reached, and they don&#039;t have to offer equity stakes or limit executive pay.  

I&#039;d like to see the entire text of the proposal released for all of us to see, instead of just the press release from Nancy Pelosi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good morning biliruben and Kary,</p>
<p>In terms of equity stakes in the companies, a few of the banks that are going to go under anyways, we&#8217;ll call those first in line, sell their toxic waste to the government, marked down to say, 60 cents on the dollar instead of more like 20 cents on the dollar in the open market. </p>
<p>Now the other, somewhat stable banks can sell their loans at 60 cents on the dollar in the open market, now that a price point has been reached, and they don&#8217;t have to offer equity stakes or limit executive pay.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see the entire text of the proposal released for all of us to see, instead of just the press release from Nancy Pelosi.</p>
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		<title>By: Jillayne Schlicke</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325866</link>
		<dc:creator>Jillayne Schlicke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325866</guid>
		<description>From Office of Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- Sept. 28, 2008

REINVEST, REIMBURSE, REFORM

IMPROVING THE FINANCIAL RESCUE LEGISLATION

Significant bipartisan work has built consensus around dramatic improvements to the original Bush-Paulson plan to stabilize American financial markets -- including cutting in half the Administration&#039;s initial request for $700 billion and requiring Congressional review for any future commitment of taxpayers&#039; funds. If the government loses money, the financial industry will pay back the taxpayers.

3 Phases of a Financial Rescue with Strong Taxpayer Protections

Reinvest in the troubled financial markets … to stabilize our economy and insulate Main Street from Wall Street

Reimburse the taxpayer … through ownership of shares and appreciation in the value of purchased assets

Reform business-as-usual on Wall Street … strong Congressional oversight and no golden parachutes

CRITICAL IMPROVEMENTS TO THE RESCUE PLAN

Democrats have insisted from day one on substantial changes to make the Bush-Paulson plan acceptable -- protecting American taxpayers and Main Street -- and these elements will be included in the legislation

Protection for taxpayers, ensuring THEY share IN ANY profits

Cuts the payment of $700 billion in half and conditions future payments on Congressional review

Gives taxpayers an ownership stake and profit-making opportunities with participating companies

Puts taxpayers first in line to recover assets if participating company fails

Guarantees taxpayers are repaid in full -- if other protections have not actually produced a profit

Allows the government to purchase troubled assets from pension plans, local governments, and small banks that serve low- and middle-income families

Limits on excessive compensation for CEOs and executives

New restrictions on CEO and executive compensation for participating companies: 

No multi-million dollar golden parachutes

Limits CEO compensation that encourages unnecessary risk-taking

Recovers bonuses paid based on promised gains that later turn out to be false or inaccurate

Strong independent oversight and transparency

Four separate independent oversight entities or processes to protect the taxpayer

A strong oversight board appointed by bipartisan leaders of Congress

A GAO presence at Treasury to oversee the program and conduct audits to ensure strong internal controls, and to prevent waste, fraud, and abuse

An independent Inspector General to monitor the Treasury Secretary&#039;s decisions
Transparency -- requiring posting of transactions online -- to help jumpstart private sector demand

Meaningful judicial review of the Treasury Secretary&#039;s actions

Help to prevent home foreclosures crippling the American economy

The government can use its power as the owner of mortgages and mortgage backed securities to facilitate loan modifications (such as, reduced principal or interest rate, lengthened time to pay back the mortgage) to help reduce the 2 million projected foreclosures in the next year

Extends provision (passed earlier in this Congress) to stop tax liability on mortgage foreclosures

Helps save small businesses that need credit by aiding small community banks hurt by the mortgage crisis—allowing these banks to deduct losses from investments in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stocks


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092800900.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Office of Speaker Nancy Pelosi &#8212; Sept. 28, 2008</p>
<p>REINVEST, REIMBURSE, REFORM</p>
<p>IMPROVING THE FINANCIAL RESCUE LEGISLATION</p>
<p>Significant bipartisan work has built consensus around dramatic improvements to the original Bush-Paulson plan to stabilize American financial markets &#8212; including cutting in half the Administration&#8217;s initial request for $700 billion and requiring Congressional review for any future commitment of taxpayers&#8217; funds. If the government loses money, the financial industry will pay back the taxpayers.</p>
<p>3 Phases of a Financial Rescue with Strong Taxpayer Protections</p>
<p>Reinvest in the troubled financial markets … to stabilize our economy and insulate Main Street from Wall Street</p>
<p>Reimburse the taxpayer … through ownership of shares and appreciation in the value of purchased assets</p>
<p>Reform business-as-usual on Wall Street … strong Congressional oversight and no golden parachutes</p>
<p>CRITICAL IMPROVEMENTS TO THE RESCUE PLAN</p>
<p>Democrats have insisted from day one on substantial changes to make the Bush-Paulson plan acceptable &#8212; protecting American taxpayers and Main Street &#8212; and these elements will be included in the legislation</p>
<p>Protection for taxpayers, ensuring THEY share IN ANY profits</p>
<p>Cuts the payment of $700 billion in half and conditions future payments on Congressional review</p>
<p>Gives taxpayers an ownership stake and profit-making opportunities with participating companies</p>
<p>Puts taxpayers first in line to recover assets if participating company fails</p>
<p>Guarantees taxpayers are repaid in full &#8212; if other protections have not actually produced a profit</p>
<p>Allows the government to purchase troubled assets from pension plans, local governments, and small banks that serve low- and middle-income families</p>
<p>Limits on excessive compensation for CEOs and executives</p>
<p>New restrictions on CEO and executive compensation for participating companies: </p>
<p>No multi-million dollar golden parachutes</p>
<p>Limits CEO compensation that encourages unnecessary risk-taking</p>
<p>Recovers bonuses paid based on promised gains that later turn out to be false or inaccurate</p>
<p>Strong independent oversight and transparency</p>
<p>Four separate independent oversight entities or processes to protect the taxpayer</p>
<p>A strong oversight board appointed by bipartisan leaders of Congress</p>
<p>A GAO presence at Treasury to oversee the program and conduct audits to ensure strong internal controls, and to prevent waste, fraud, and abuse</p>
<p>An independent Inspector General to monitor the Treasury Secretary&#8217;s decisions<br />
Transparency &#8212; requiring posting of transactions online &#8212; to help jumpstart private sector demand</p>
<p>Meaningful judicial review of the Treasury Secretary&#8217;s actions</p>
<p>Help to prevent home foreclosures crippling the American economy</p>
<p>The government can use its power as the owner of mortgages and mortgage backed securities to facilitate loan modifications (such as, reduced principal or interest rate, lengthened time to pay back the mortgage) to help reduce the 2 million projected foreclosures in the next year</p>
<p>Extends provision (passed earlier in this Congress) to stop tax liability on mortgage foreclosures</p>
<p>Helps save small businesses that need credit by aiding small community banks hurt by the mortgage crisis—allowing these banks to deduct losses from investments in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stocks</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092800900.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092800900.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325861</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325861</guid>
		<description>BTW, I believe JP Morgan has stated that they don&#039;t know whether they will take advantage of the program.  They didn&#039;t say they didn&#039;t know whether they&#039;d be eligible.  The point is, even healthy companies would like to get rid of this stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I believe JP Morgan has stated that they don&#8217;t know whether they will take advantage of the program.  They didn&#8217;t say they didn&#8217;t know whether they&#8217;d be eligible.  The point is, even healthy companies would like to get rid of this stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325860</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325860</guid>
		<description>The idea is that these &quot;toxic assets&quot; are clogging up the system, making credit less available.  If that&#039;s the case, as long as you&#039;re dealing with an entity that provides credit, taking them out of the system would improve the availability of giving credit.

Maybe someone else can chime in here (my grasp of microeconomics is better than macroeconomics), but I&#039;ve always understood that banks and other companies work of leverage and are restrained by certain ratios.  If an asset they&#039;re holding go down in value (e.g. one of these assets declines in value) then that reduces the amount they can loan, even if they&#039;re a very healthy entity.  

Or stated differently, the concern is the value of these &quot;toxic assets&quot; is likely to decline further before it gets better, making the situation worse for all the companies that hold them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea is that these &#8220;toxic assets&#8221; are clogging up the system, making credit less available.  If that&#8217;s the case, as long as you&#8217;re dealing with an entity that provides credit, taking them out of the system would improve the availability of giving credit.</p>
<p>Maybe someone else can chime in here (my grasp of microeconomics is better than macroeconomics), but I&#8217;ve always understood that banks and other companies work of leverage and are restrained by certain ratios.  If an asset they&#8217;re holding go down in value (e.g. one of these assets declines in value) then that reduces the amount they can loan, even if they&#8217;re a very healthy entity.  </p>
<p>Or stated differently, the concern is the value of these &#8220;toxic assets&#8221; is likely to decline further before it gets better, making the situation worse for all the companies that hold them.</p>
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		<title>By: biliruben</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325859</link>
		<dc:creator>biliruben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325859</guid>
		<description>Why the heck would we want or need to be bailing out the better-run companies that don&#039;t need the money?

That makes no sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the heck would we want or need to be bailing out the better-run companies that don&#8217;t need the money?</p>
<p>That makes no sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/09/27/bailout-bill-agreement-reached/#comment-325857</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2521#comment-325857</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just the opposite as biliruben.  Absent the equity stake being rare, the better run companies, that could do more with the money, won&#039;t use the program, making it less effective.  It could also cause investors to lose confidence in the equity markets, since so many companies would be at risk of dilution. The equity stake is a reason I&#039;m against the bill, but if it&#039;s very limited I could change my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just the opposite as biliruben.  Absent the equity stake being rare, the better run companies, that could do more with the money, won&#8217;t use the program, making it less effective.  It could also cause investors to lose confidence in the equity markets, since so many companies would be at risk of dilution. The equity stake is a reason I&#8217;m against the bill, but if it&#8217;s very limited I could change my mind.</p>
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