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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Night Stats &#8211; Prices Dropping</title>
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	<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/</link>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327863</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 03:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327863</guid>
		<description>CB,

You reach a point in a market, we aren&#039;t there yet, where only people who have to sell are selling.  Builders with already built product, relocation companies, bank owned property.  A portion of the price buys down the rate on the offered low financing.  Per the math above, buying down the rate is cheaper than a price reduction, about half the cost. In the beginning of a down market there is more opportunity to do that, as appraisers use comps, meaning higher past sales.  But if they wait too long, the opportunity is lost.

I do think there is pressure for government involvement as to reduced interest rates.  Clearly the government was involved in lower rates after 911 to support the housing market.  Remember, no one would do a thing to keep Seattle prices as high as they are.  What will happen will be to help Detroit and Florida and Vegas and areas that are building up areas of empty houses.  But what is done, gets done on a national scale, so the rich get richer and the poor get saved all in well fell swoop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CB,</p>
<p>You reach a point in a market, we aren&#8217;t there yet, where only people who have to sell are selling.  Builders with already built product, relocation companies, bank owned property.  A portion of the price buys down the rate on the offered low financing.  Per the math above, buying down the rate is cheaper than a price reduction, about half the cost. In the beginning of a down market there is more opportunity to do that, as appraisers use comps, meaning higher past sales.  But if they wait too long, the opportunity is lost.</p>
<p>I do think there is pressure for government involvement as to reduced interest rates.  Clearly the government was involved in lower rates after 911 to support the housing market.  Remember, no one would do a thing to keep Seattle prices as high as they are.  What will happen will be to help Detroit and Florida and Vegas and areas that are building up areas of empty houses.  But what is done, gets done on a national scale, so the rich get richer and the poor get saved all in well fell swoop.</p>
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		<title>By: cautiousbuyer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327860</link>
		<dc:creator>cautiousbuyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327860</guid>
		<description>Ardell, how would rates get so low?  Are you thinking that the government would fill the gap between what sellers will sell for and what buyers will pay by effectively buying down points on mortgages on every transaction?

I imagine homeownership increased 2001 to 2007 due to people who ordinarily wouldn&#039;t have qualified for a mortgage becoming homeowners.  Some percent of those have lost the homes and probably reduced the homeownership rate.  That percent probably isn&#039;t coming back on the anytime soon though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardell, how would rates get so low?  Are you thinking that the government would fill the gap between what sellers will sell for and what buyers will pay by effectively buying down points on mortgages on every transaction?</p>
<p>I imagine homeownership increased 2001 to 2007 due to people who ordinarily wouldn&#8217;t have qualified for a mortgage becoming homeowners.  Some percent of those have lost the homes and probably reduced the homeownership rate.  That percent probably isn&#8217;t coming back on the anytime soon though.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327856</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327856</guid>
		<description>What?  No link?  My recent favorite was Leanne&#039;s piece on being sick of &quot;armageddon&quot; posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What?  No link?  My recent favorite was Leanne&#8217;s piece on being sick of &#8220;armageddon&#8221; posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327855</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327855</guid>
		<description>Ardell, I don&#039;t know why you bother with these price stat threads when Elizabeth Rhodes has such in depth cutting edge analysis in the real estate section of the Seattle Times.  ;)  :D  

The piece this week is almost as bad as her all time worst one--the condo that wouldn&#039;t sell at $660,000 that had just been purchased 4 months before for $600,000 (or some similar numbers).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardell, I don&#8217;t know why you bother with these price stat threads when Elizabeth Rhodes has such in depth cutting edge analysis in the real estate section of the Seattle Times.  <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>The piece this week is almost as bad as her all time worst one&#8211;the condo that wouldn&#8217;t sell at $660,000 that had just been purchased 4 months before for $600,000 (or some similar numbers).</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327854</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327854</guid>
		<description>I have seen it.  In reference to short sales I always say you can likely do better if you can find some sort of combination of equity, vacant and on the market a long time (preferably all three).  On the equity issue if they&#039;re selling for over 2x what they paid, they&#039;re going to feel better about the sale.  That and with equity a $10,000 price change might be the difference between $210,000 and $200,000 in their pocket, where without much equity it might be the difference between $20,000 and $10,000.  It&#039;s sort of the flip side of sellers pricing too high based on saying &quot;I want to get $XX,000 out of closing.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen it.  In reference to short sales I always say you can likely do better if you can find some sort of combination of equity, vacant and on the market a long time (preferably all three).  On the equity issue if they&#8217;re selling for over 2x what they paid, they&#8217;re going to feel better about the sale.  That and with equity a $10,000 price change might be the difference between $210,000 and $200,000 in their pocket, where without much equity it might be the difference between $20,000 and $10,000.  It&#8217;s sort of the flip side of sellers pricing too high based on saying &#8220;I want to get $XX,000 out of closing.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327853</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327853</guid>
		<description>tj, 

Back in the day, 7 year was my preference, so lacking a good 30 year rate, I&#039;d like to see a good 7 year rate vs. a 5 year rate.  More practical for most people.  7 year spreads have not been good for many years, as they used to be.  I&#039;d like to see 30 year at 5.5%, 7 year at 5% and 5 year at 4.875% with virtually no spread on the 7 vs. 5.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tj, </p>
<p>Back in the day, 7 year was my preference, so lacking a good 30 year rate, I&#8217;d like to see a good 7 year rate vs. a 5 year rate.  More practical for most people.  7 year spreads have not been good for many years, as they used to be.  I&#8217;d like to see 30 year at 5.5%, 7 year at 5% and 5 year at 4.875% with virtually no spread on the 7 vs. 5.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327852</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327852</guid>
		<description>Kary,

I have not found that significant equity makes seller&#039;s more realistic about wanting more than the last sale, even when the last sale was pre-peak pricing.  Have you?

The smaller the developer the more &quot;nervous&quot; he/she is, and larger ones seem to want the spec houses gone more than lots, from what I am seeing.  Some of the best choices are in &quot;spec&quot; houses that were built under contingent contracts, with the contingency expired and buyer backing out.  Better lot choices in that group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kary,</p>
<p>I have not found that significant equity makes seller&#8217;s more realistic about wanting more than the last sale, even when the last sale was pre-peak pricing.  Have you?</p>
<p>The smaller the developer the more &#8220;nervous&#8221; he/she is, and larger ones seem to want the spec houses gone more than lots, from what I am seeing.  Some of the best choices are in &#8220;spec&#8221; houses that were built under contingent contracts, with the contingency expired and buyer backing out.  Better lot choices in that group.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327850</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327850</guid>
		<description>Ardell, there are people out there who have owned for a considerable amount of time and did not use their house as an ATM machine (refinance).  But I&#039;d agree, new construction is getting to be attractive--I think the banks are putting pressure on some developers, more than the developers are getting nervous, but that&#039;s because I hear that side more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardell, there are people out there who have owned for a considerable amount of time and did not use their house as an ATM machine (refinance).  But I&#8217;d agree, new construction is getting to be attractive&#8211;I think the banks are putting pressure on some developers, more than the developers are getting nervous, but that&#8217;s because I hear that side more.</p>
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		<title>By: tj</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327848</link>
		<dc:creator>tj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327848</guid>
		<description>The thing with interest rates is that  they must be at a rate where the lender have virtually no risk to loose inflation adjusted money during the duration of the payback time to make it interresting for the lender. Taking the risk of some foreclosures is one thing but taking the risk that all loans will yield negative roi is another beast. So if you lend money on 30y basis you want to minimize your risk that the interest rate is lower then the average inflation. From looking at interest in an historical perspective it seems like the consensus is that the threshold is close to 5% for long term. I doubt you will see it lower than that. Short term lending as 2 and 5 years can be much lower even 15 years since if we know face possible deflation it will offset higher inflation later. And for the governemtn to mess with the mortgage interest rates I think would be a pretty bad idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing with interest rates is that  they must be at a rate where the lender have virtually no risk to loose inflation adjusted money during the duration of the payback time to make it interresting for the lender. Taking the risk of some foreclosures is one thing but taking the risk that all loans will yield negative roi is another beast. So if you lend money on 30y basis you want to minimize your risk that the interest rate is lower then the average inflation. From looking at interest in an historical perspective it seems like the consensus is that the threshold is close to 5% for long term. I doubt you will see it lower than that. Short term lending as 2 and 5 years can be much lower even 15 years since if we know face possible deflation it will offset higher inflation later. And for the governemtn to mess with the mortgage interest rates I think would be a pretty bad idea.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2008/10/26/sunday-night-stats-prices-dropping/#comment-327844</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=2978#comment-327844</guid>
		<description>How is one supposed to go out there and make a living, if asking prices are above peak sold prices?  You&#039;d have to take 100 showers to take the stink off of selling something over peak pricing in this market.  The biggest standstill of the marketplace are the asking prices, leaving only shortsales and bank owned properties as viable &quot;on market&quot; alternatives, to a great extent.  Though I am recently finding new construction prices to be a fair alternative in this last quarter, as builders are getting very reasonable as to spec house pricing and coming down substantiall from what they were asking just 30 to 60 days ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is one supposed to go out there and make a living, if asking prices are above peak sold prices?  You&#8217;d have to take 100 showers to take the stink off of selling something over peak pricing in this market.  The biggest standstill of the marketplace are the asking prices, leaving only shortsales and bank owned properties as viable &#8220;on market&#8221; alternatives, to a great extent.  Though I am recently finding new construction prices to be a fair alternative in this last quarter, as builders are getting very reasonable as to spec house pricing and coming down substantiall from what they were asking just 30 to 60 days ago.</p>
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