Comments on: Balloon Frame houses and Firemen’s safety

By: Tad Eley

Tad Eley — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:07:45 +0000

It is great that your home inspector caught that framing detail and made a note of it. Better to be prepared and make allowances in the budget now than to suffer the potential loss later. Fire and seismic forces will act on all houses differently and a careful inspection will in the long run save money and hopefully lives.
Tad Eley
Sound Foundation Repair

By: ARDELL

ARDELL — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:02:58 +0000

Thank you deputy chief,

Here is the video in the post that shows the fire spreading and claims the hazard to firefighters:

http://gloucestercitynews.typepad.com/clearysnotebook/2007/12/pennsylvania-fi.html

It may not be the same one you are referring to on YouTube, or it may be the same video, but with commentary expressing the danger to firefighters.

By: Kary L. Krismer

Kary L. Krismer — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:35:38 +0000

Thanks, I hadn’t thought about an unfinished basement making the determination easy. Unfortunately not all basements are unfinished, but presumably you could tell in a house that had a foundation with a crawlspace.

By: Deputy Chief

Deputy Chief — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:24:18 +0000

go to YouTube.com and do a search for Balloon Frame. then find the video from Tampa. That shows the kinds of challenges that this type of construction presents to the fire service. Fire starts popping out everywhere.

By: Deputy Chief

Deputy Chief — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:57:40 +0000

Comments from the fire service. Balloon framing is common in homes built prior to 1950 mostly. the easiest way to tell if you may have BF is to go to the basement and take a look on the top of the foundation walls where they are supporting the floor joists. In platform construction, the floor decking on the first floor will go all the way to the outside wall of the structure. In balloon framing it will end at the interior wall and the wall stud from the wall will extend down and be attached to the end of the floor joist. You will be able to put your hand up inside the wall cavity from the basement. This wall cavity will extend all the way to the attic with the intermediate floor joists nailed to the side of the stud. This creates another space for a fire to extend above the ceilings of any intermediate floors. These houses are wonderfully easy to wire because all you do is go to the attic and drop the wire all the way to the basement. A fire in the basement will quickly spread up the walls to the attic and into the ceilings on intermediate floors. The general rule for fire attack is the first line to the basement the second to the attic. any fire in the house that may get into the partition space will have a direct route to the attic generally resulting in the roof burning off the building. A few years ago, we had a fire where a party placed a plastic pail of wood stove ashes (well, not really all ashes) was placed on a porch next to the exterior wall. Caught fire, got into the partition and burned the roof off the house. It was real easy to trace the route of the fire. Burned two stud spaces all the way to the attic. None of the rest of the house involved. It is not that the framing method is a hazard to firemen really, it just dictates how you need to fight the fire. Generally, a homeowner’s insurance company takes a very dim view of this type of construction. You don’t very often keep a fire to just one room or the basement. Fire stopping can be installed in the wall cavities but it is quite invasive and expensive.

By: Kary L. Krismer

Kary L. Krismer — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:24:32 +0000

Yes, I meant during the inspection.

As to correcting it, I’d guess it would require tearing out all the walls, at least partially. You could do the exterior walls as part of a proper insulation job, but I don’t see anyone doing that just to accomplish this task.

By: ARDELL

ARDELL — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:24:55 +0000

Kary,

The firemen tell by the way the fire is spreading, unfortunately. I’ll check with inspectors. Perhaps knowing would make getting insurance more costly or more difficult.

By: Kary L. Krismer

Kary L. Krismer — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:20:00 +0000

Also check how hard it is to determine! I’m not sure you can tell without opening a wall.

By: ARDELL

ARDELL — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:09:02 +0000

Kary,

This from Brian Humphrey, Spokesman for LAFD. Crisis communications consultant to government and industry, re balloon frame:

“I think it ESSENTIAL for owner of a balloon construction home to know about the immense & inordinate challenge in event of fire.”

**
Of course to know about the challenges in the event of fire, you have to know whether or not it has a balloon frame. Seems this is something home inspectors should tell people when buying one.

Also from Tweeting with Brian, as I suspected, lacking knowledge of whether or not it has a balloon frame, firefighters will err on the side of caution. Erring on the side of caution is not what you want when your house is on fire.

I’ll be following up with home inspectors and builders to see how hard or easy it is to correct the floor plate issue on older homes.

By: ARDELL

ARDELL — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:04:19 +0000

You know they have a right to know, and you know it is we who need to make it so. And not just one agent at a time.