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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Night Stats &#8211; 2008</title>
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	<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/</link>
	<description>Seattle&#039;s Leading Resource for Real Estate Information</description>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332369</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332369</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you still want to think any area went up, while others went down…no data will be of use to you. NO area is up.&quot;

That would be a change in mix issue, but I&#039;m just referencing what the NWMLS reports.

But let&#039;s see.  That must mean that that King County is down more than what the NMWLS stats indicate.  But the NWMLS stats indicate King County is down more than Case Shiller.  But Case Shiller includes three counties, the two additional ones being down more than King, per the NWMLS.

Which basically gets back to my prior point.  If you want to know what your house did, you can&#039;t rely on any of this.  You need neighborhood stats of comparable properties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you still want to think any area went up, while others went down…no data will be of use to you. NO area is up.&#8221;</p>
<p>That would be a change in mix issue, but I&#8217;m just referencing what the NWMLS reports.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s see.  That must mean that that King County is down more than what the NMWLS stats indicate.  But the NWMLS stats indicate King County is down more than Case Shiller.  But Case Shiller includes three counties, the two additional ones being down more than King, per the NWMLS.</p>
<p>Which basically gets back to my prior point.  If you want to know what your house did, you can&#8217;t rely on any of this.  You need neighborhood stats of comparable properties.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332366</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332366</guid>
		<description>tj, I suppose on one extreme there are buyers like your friend back in Sweden - they negotiate for sport.  

When working with buyers, if I find that the home they want happens to be overpriced, I go to bat for them and bring data.  Some sellers respond, some don&#039;t.  Whether a seller will respond to information has little to do with the price of the neighborhood.  They are either open to facts, or they aren&#039;t.

I should probably add that any home 5% overpriced or more is probably the home of a seller that isn&#039;t interested in facts.

I guess you could say there are also two types of sellers! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tj, I suppose on one extreme there are buyers like your friend back in Sweden &#8211; they negotiate for sport.  </p>
<p>When working with buyers, if I find that the home they want happens to be overpriced, I go to bat for them and bring data.  Some sellers respond, some don&#8217;t.  Whether a seller will respond to information has little to do with the price of the neighborhood.  They are either open to facts, or they aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I should probably add that any home 5% overpriced or more is probably the home of a seller that isn&#8217;t interested in facts.</p>
<p>I guess you could say there are also two types of sellers! <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: tj</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332365</link>
		<dc:creator>tj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332365</guid>
		<description>Greg, that reminds me of my best friend back in Sweden, he is one of the wealthiest guys in the county due to...drum roll...real estate! He inhereted a company that&#039;s been in the family for 4 generations which was first a construction company but is today a holder of a massive amount of paid off commercial and multi-family properties. Anyway, his mantra is &quot;There is always some poor desperate $#$@&quot; when he is looking to buy anything costly incl. property, vehicles etc,etc. But for us who don&#039;t wheel and deal on a daily basis with unlimited resources and do just a few large purchases in a lifetime we prefer to have a wide selection when buying. I&#039;m sure you can find that desperate seller today and make a good deal but it will take time and you will be left with one or a few options, better to wait until the majority of object moves into your prefered price range if that is the way the market is going so you get more choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, that reminds me of my best friend back in Sweden, he is one of the wealthiest guys in the county due to&#8230;drum roll&#8230;real estate! He inhereted a company that&#8217;s been in the family for 4 generations which was first a construction company but is today a holder of a massive amount of paid off commercial and multi-family properties. Anyway, his mantra is &#8220;There is always some poor desperate $#$@&#8221; when he is looking to buy anything costly incl. property, vehicles etc,etc. But for us who don&#8217;t wheel and deal on a daily basis with unlimited resources and do just a few large purchases in a lifetime we prefer to have a wide selection when buying. I&#8217;m sure you can find that desperate seller today and make a good deal but it will take time and you will be left with one or a few options, better to wait until the majority of object moves into your prefered price range if that is the way the market is going so you get more choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332364</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332364</guid>
		<description>There are two types of buyers.  Those that focus on one area exclusively, and those that are open to multiple areas.

Among those that are open to multiple areas, they generally start the search in the preferred area.  If they can afford something they like, the search is over.  If they aren&#039;t happy with it, they become open to another area.

One of my clients recently wanted a townhome in Queen Anne, but realized they probably would settle for Capitol Hill.  We eliminated Queen Anne almost immediately, and Capitol Hill left them financially stretched to find something they liked.

We expanded the search to Ballard, Fremont, and Green Lake.  This buyer was looking for convenience to DT, and we found Fremont to offer enough attractive inventory that met their needs.  So, Fremont was the solution.

Incidentally, at the time, Capitol Hill was cutting prices, and Fremont wasn&#039;t.  Fremont sales were very slow - we brought data along with our offer to show that Fremont was overpriced vs. the other areas we were looking at, and ended up getting a huge concession.  The herd mentality pricing in Fremont started to shift downward in response to the fact that other neighborhoods had become more competitive.

I guess the moral to that story is that when an area becomes overpriced, it doesn&#039;t mean that you can&#039;t buy a home in the area for the market price.  There are always sellers that are motivated, that will respond to good analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two types of buyers.  Those that focus on one area exclusively, and those that are open to multiple areas.</p>
<p>Among those that are open to multiple areas, they generally start the search in the preferred area.  If they can afford something they like, the search is over.  If they aren&#8217;t happy with it, they become open to another area.</p>
<p>One of my clients recently wanted a townhome in Queen Anne, but realized they probably would settle for Capitol Hill.  We eliminated Queen Anne almost immediately, and Capitol Hill left them financially stretched to find something they liked.</p>
<p>We expanded the search to Ballard, Fremont, and Green Lake.  This buyer was looking for convenience to DT, and we found Fremont to offer enough attractive inventory that met their needs.  So, Fremont was the solution.</p>
<p>Incidentally, at the time, Capitol Hill was cutting prices, and Fremont wasn&#8217;t.  Fremont sales were very slow &#8211; we brought data along with our offer to show that Fremont was overpriced vs. the other areas we were looking at, and ended up getting a huge concession.  The herd mentality pricing in Fremont started to shift downward in response to the fact that other neighborhoods had become more competitive.</p>
<p>I guess the moral to that story is that when an area becomes overpriced, it doesn&#8217;t mean that you can&#8217;t buy a home in the area for the market price.  There are always sellers that are motivated, that will respond to good analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332363</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332363</guid>
		<description>Kary,

If you still want to think any area went up, while others went down...no data will be of use to you.  NO area is up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kary,</p>
<p>If you still want to think any area went up, while others went down&#8230;no data will be of use to you.  NO area is up.</p>
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		<title>By: Kary L. Krismer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332362</link>
		<dc:creator>Kary L. Krismer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332362</guid>
		<description>Between those three, yes I would guess they&#039;d move closely in unison.  But King County is a big county.  Just over a year ago the south end of the county was doing very poorly in comparison to anything north of say Renton.

For December, 6 of 30 NWMLS areas for King County had higher means than the prior year, but the overall mean was down roughly 8%.  8 of the 30 medians were higher, but I noticed one down about 20%, while overall it was down maybe 7%.  Given that, what use is the county wide data?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Between those three, yes I would guess they&#8217;d move closely in unison.  But King County is a big county.  Just over a year ago the south end of the county was doing very poorly in comparison to anything north of say Renton.</p>
<p>For December, 6 of 30 NWMLS areas for King County had higher means than the prior year, but the overall mean was down roughly 8%.  8 of the 30 medians were higher, but I noticed one down about 20%, while overall it was down maybe 7%.  Given that, what use is the county wide data?</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332361</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332361</guid>
		<description>It is dangerous to only target one area, because price pressures are not equal and simultaneous, but are inter-related.  Often people assume they can&#039;t afford X neighborhood, and only look in Y neighborhood.  Meanwhile the prices in X have gone down more than Y.  

Premium factors, as Greg pointed out with the view premium, are often hit the hardest in a weak market.  Y neighborhood will eventually go down also, but the premium neighborhoods will often go down first.

Someone buying where there are no views, for example, may not be looking in the view areas.  But once a view premium is knocked down by $400,000, the neighborhood without the view will likewise go down...but much later.  

Market prices are all like a big puzzle and are inter-related.  They do not change simultaneeously, but in domino fashion.  Even if you know for sure that you want to live in this &quot;trapezoid&quot;, you have to follow the prices in a much broader area to see change coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is dangerous to only target one area, because price pressures are not equal and simultaneous, but are inter-related.  Often people assume they can&#8217;t afford X neighborhood, and only look in Y neighborhood.  Meanwhile the prices in X have gone down more than Y.  </p>
<p>Premium factors, as Greg pointed out with the view premium, are often hit the hardest in a weak market.  Y neighborhood will eventually go down also, but the premium neighborhoods will often go down first.</p>
<p>Someone buying where there are no views, for example, may not be looking in the view areas.  But once a view premium is knocked down by $400,000, the neighborhood without the view will likewise go down&#8230;but much later.  </p>
<p>Market prices are all like a big puzzle and are inter-related.  They do not change simultaneeously, but in domino fashion.  Even if you know for sure that you want to live in this &#8220;trapezoid&#8221;, you have to follow the prices in a much broader area to see change coming.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332360</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332360</guid>
		<description>tj,

I like the word &quot;bamboozled&quot;, because the person who gets excited is complicit in the end result...moreso than if they were &quot;swindled&quot; :)

The biggest problem I am seeing with new construction at present, is first time buyers want an agent the day after it is too late to get one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tj,</p>
<p>I like the word &#8220;bamboozled&#8221;, because the person who gets excited is complicit in the end result&#8230;moreso than if they were &#8220;swindled&#8221; <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The biggest problem I am seeing with new construction at present, is first time buyers want an agent the day after it is too late to get one.</p>
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		<title>By: cautious buyer</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332359</link>
		<dc:creator>cautious buyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332359</guid>
		<description>Kary, 

Of course people will look closer into the areas that interest them before purchasing.  The countywide or three county data obviously isn&#039;t meant to price out particular neighborhoods.  The neighborhoods are all related though.  The countywide data can be used to tell you that overall prices are higher than they should be, or that prices are indeed dropping.  Unless there is some mitigating factor, you would expect prices in most neighborhoods to drop at  about the same time, because Queen Anne would drag down Magnolia or vice versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kary, </p>
<p>Of course people will look closer into the areas that interest them before purchasing.  The countywide or three county data obviously isn&#8217;t meant to price out particular neighborhoods.  The neighborhoods are all related though.  The countywide data can be used to tell you that overall prices are higher than they should be, or that prices are indeed dropping.  Unless there is some mitigating factor, you would expect prices in most neighborhoods to drop at  about the same time, because Queen Anne would drag down Magnolia or vice versa.</p>
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		<title>By: tj</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/01/11/sunday-night-stats-2008/#comment-332357</link>
		<dc:creator>tj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=3932#comment-332357</guid>
		<description>Ardell, I&#039;m sure the &quot;Bamboozled&quot; thing happens all the time and that it is very effective especially for first timers or unprepared buyers. I&#039;m guilty myself of having falling for it when buying other stuff, once you go into the &quot;select options&quot; mode you are hooked if you don&#039;t have a set plan that you stick to. The difference is though that I would never go unprepared and without a plan into a +$50k purchase, ever. Most of what seems important to have when you browse around options you will never miss if you opt out of it but human nature is hard to resist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardell, I&#8217;m sure the &#8220;Bamboozled&#8221; thing happens all the time and that it is very effective especially for first timers or unprepared buyers. I&#8217;m guilty myself of having falling for it when buying other stuff, once you go into the &#8220;select options&#8221; mode you are hooked if you don&#8217;t have a set plan that you stick to. The difference is though that I would never go unprepared and without a plan into a +$50k purchase, ever. Most of what seems important to have when you browse around options you will never miss if you opt out of it but human nature is hard to resist.</p>
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