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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Night Stats &#8211; More bang for your buck</title>
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	<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/</link>
	<description>Seattle&#039;s Leading Resource for Real Estate Information</description>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-340128</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-340128</guid>
		<description>Chuck,

If noting the individual schools were a mandatory input field, the results would get even more interesting and relevant.  It is not unusual for home prices to be impacted by which of the 3 high schools, and which of the 12 elementary schools, the neighborhood feeds into.

When Zillow is Zestimating and appraisers are pulling comps by radius, they often overlook that they are pulling in comps from a different school or school system.  That will throw the result off, as you can see from the data, by a significant percentage in neighborhoods that border two school districts.

As to improved value factors, a new school building doesn&#039;t usually improve these variances.  The only way that would happen is if the building was in such disrepair, that people would not buy a house if their children had to go to that school before the rebuild. You would do more to improve the value by volunteering to mentor or tutor children in your immediate vicinity.  Finding the lowest ranked elementary school, and spearheading a volunteerism effort to assist and support the growth of those children, would be a high return project on many levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck,</p>
<p>If noting the individual schools were a mandatory input field, the results would get even more interesting and relevant.  It is not unusual for home prices to be impacted by which of the 3 high schools, and which of the 12 elementary schools, the neighborhood feeds into.</p>
<p>When Zillow is Zestimating and appraisers are pulling comps by radius, they often overlook that they are pulling in comps from a different school or school system.  That will throw the result off, as you can see from the data, by a significant percentage in neighborhoods that border two school districts.</p>
<p>As to improved value factors, a new school building doesn&#8217;t usually improve these variances.  The only way that would happen is if the building was in such disrepair, that people would not buy a house if their children had to go to that school before the rebuild. You would do more to improve the value by volunteering to mentor or tutor children in your immediate vicinity.  Finding the lowest ranked elementary school, and spearheading a volunteerism effort to assist and support the growth of those children, would be a high return project on many levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Reiling</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-340127</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Reiling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-340127</guid>
		<description>A very nice piece of work, Ardell; thank you.  Helps make some sense of patterns we&#039;ve seen.  

We moved from Mercer Island to Newcastle a couple of years ago, in part because the prices were obviously so much lower in Newcastle and Renton Highlands than they were in Mercer Island or Bellevue.  Since our kids are now grown and out of the school system, the price difference was compelling.  Even though we bought a newer home, not a split, we felt there was about a 15% difference between south Bellevue and Newcastle.  Of course some of that difference will still be there when we sell, but it makes a big difference in the quality of house you can afford, as long as it fits your situation.  

Renton is rebuilding many of its schools as a lot of the area gets redeveloped - the new Hazelwood elementary school in Newcastle just north of us is a good example.  So we think the combination of rebuilt schools, revitalized downtown Renton, and I-405 improvements may evaporate some of that difference - to our benefit :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very nice piece of work, Ardell; thank you.  Helps make some sense of patterns we&#8217;ve seen.  </p>
<p>We moved from Mercer Island to Newcastle a couple of years ago, in part because the prices were obviously so much lower in Newcastle and Renton Highlands than they were in Mercer Island or Bellevue.  Since our kids are now grown and out of the school system, the price difference was compelling.  Even though we bought a newer home, not a split, we felt there was about a 15% difference between south Bellevue and Newcastle.  Of course some of that difference will still be there when we sell, but it makes a big difference in the quality of house you can afford, as long as it fits your situation.  </p>
<p>Renton is rebuilding many of its schools as a lot of the area gets redeveloped &#8211; the new Hazelwood elementary school in Newcastle just north of us is a good example.  So we think the combination of rebuilt schools, revitalized downtown Renton, and I-405 improvements may evaporate some of that difference &#8211; to our benefit <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-340017</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 17:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-340017</guid>
		<description>Roger,

In your immediate vicinity, the price differential between Renton SD and Bellevue SD is 17%. In ISS SD you get a much larger home for the same price as one in BE, about 600 sf larger.

It&#039;s one of the reasons I do Bellevue by Zip code for the last couple of years, excluding 98006.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,</p>
<p>In your immediate vicinity, the price differential between Renton SD and Bellevue SD is 17%. In ISS SD you get a much larger home for the same price as one in BE, about 600 sf larger.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one of the reasons I do Bellevue by Zip code for the last couple of years, excluding 98006.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-340013</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 17:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-340013</guid>
		<description>In some cases the difference in home price could equal the cost of sending your children to private school. If you are planning to send the children to private or parochial school anyway, sometimes the way to pay for it is determined by home price and cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In some cases the difference in home price could equal the cost of sending your children to private school. If you are planning to send the children to private or parochial school anyway, sometimes the way to pay for it is determined by home price and cost.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-340011</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 16:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-340011</guid>
		<description>Of more importance to me generally was the upturn in pricing in 3 out of 6, and the downturn of the other 3.  There were two primary reasons for that (and these numbers in graphs 2 and 4 vs. 1, are not restricted to home style).  Federal Way had the most foreclosure types in the mix, dragging the numbers down. below the March 2005 level. Screaming deals by builders was a significant factor in the areas experiencing a downturn vs. an upturn.

Often people want to know where prices are relative to...are they at 2006 levels, 2005 levels, 2004 levels...?  That is why I struck the point as early as I could in graph 2 at March of 2005.

I am reminded of the many times I have a heard a seller say &quot;if you moved my house to X it would be worth...&quot;, which of course would only be relevant if one could in fact move it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of more importance to me generally was the upturn in pricing in 3 out of 6, and the downturn of the other 3.  There were two primary reasons for that (and these numbers in graphs 2 and 4 vs. 1, are not restricted to home style).  Federal Way had the most foreclosure types in the mix, dragging the numbers down. below the March 2005 level. Screaming deals by builders was a significant factor in the areas experiencing a downturn vs. an upturn.</p>
<p>Often people want to know where prices are relative to&#8230;are they at 2006 levels, 2005 levels, 2004 levels&#8230;?  That is why I struck the point as early as I could in graph 2 at March of 2005.</p>
<p>I am reminded of the many times I have a heard a seller say &#8220;if you moved my house to X it would be worth&#8230;&#8221;, which of course would only be relevant if one could in fact move it.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-340009</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 16:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-340009</guid>
		<description>Roger,

The post has nothing to do with school rankings. Just want to make that clear. Except to the extent that school rankings influence supply and demand, and supply and demand influences prices.

I had more trouble with Issaquah SD than Renton SD as to variance of housing style. That is why it took 4 days and 7 posts until I double checked everything against the bi-level / split entry home. It is the one home that is virtually identical whether it is in Renton SD or Issaquah SD or Lake Washington SD or in New Jersey! :) The first graph reflects the price of that home style only, so home style is not the factor in that graph.  Nor are views of mountains or lakes, which I eliminated from the research data.

In the 2nd and 4th graphs, Issaquah&#039;s numbers were being dragged down by the size of a lot of the newer homes being sold.  Price per square foot of a 2,700 sf home is often lower than that of a 1,700 sf home. In Renton SD I was finding more newer homes that were smaller and in Issaquah SD I was finding more newer homes that were larger. That&#039;s why I moved the sample to similar type of home that only comes in fairly defined sizes. When I tried to include 1 story with basement, which is the most similar home to a split entry, I ran into trouble in Bellevue SD where there are some enormous and even newer homes of that type.

Remember too that I was doing this primarily for Tatiana who was looking for a school with a specific program vs ranking issues. Before speaking with me she was calling the school districts to inquire about that program. I wanted to make sure she wasn&#039;t picking a school where she couldn&#039;t find a house for her $350,000 cap amount, and basing her decision to move here on an erroneous assumption.

The reality that people buy a home in a certain school district, and in a certain High School or even elementary school, is a reality that influences home prices.  I always tell people to be aware of the imaginary lines of value that are all important in home values, whether they have children or not. It may not matter to them when they are buying, but it will come into play when they sell.

That is why from an agency standpoint it may seem better to find an agent who exclusively represents buyers, but in reality a buyer&#039;s agent is not as qualified if they don&#039;t do both listing and selling.  Warning a buyer before they buy, of the factors that will affect them when they try to sell, is a large part of the value added.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,</p>
<p>The post has nothing to do with school rankings. Just want to make that clear. Except to the extent that school rankings influence supply and demand, and supply and demand influences prices.</p>
<p>I had more trouble with Issaquah SD than Renton SD as to variance of housing style. That is why it took 4 days and 7 posts until I double checked everything against the bi-level / split entry home. It is the one home that is virtually identical whether it is in Renton SD or Issaquah SD or Lake Washington SD or in New Jersey! <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  The first graph reflects the price of that home style only, so home style is not the factor in that graph.  Nor are views of mountains or lakes, which I eliminated from the research data.</p>
<p>In the 2nd and 4th graphs, Issaquah&#8217;s numbers were being dragged down by the size of a lot of the newer homes being sold.  Price per square foot of a 2,700 sf home is often lower than that of a 1,700 sf home. In Renton SD I was finding more newer homes that were smaller and in Issaquah SD I was finding more newer homes that were larger. That&#8217;s why I moved the sample to similar type of home that only comes in fairly defined sizes. When I tried to include 1 story with basement, which is the most similar home to a split entry, I ran into trouble in Bellevue SD where there are some enormous and even newer homes of that type.</p>
<p>Remember too that I was doing this primarily for Tatiana who was looking for a school with a specific program vs ranking issues. Before speaking with me she was calling the school districts to inquire about that program. I wanted to make sure she wasn&#8217;t picking a school where she couldn&#8217;t find a house for her $350,000 cap amount, and basing her decision to move here on an erroneous assumption.</p>
<p>The reality that people buy a home in a certain school district, and in a certain High School or even elementary school, is a reality that influences home prices.  I always tell people to be aware of the imaginary lines of value that are all important in home values, whether they have children or not. It may not matter to them when they are buying, but it will come into play when they sell.</p>
<p>That is why from an agency standpoint it may seem better to find an agent who exclusively represents buyers, but in reality a buyer&#8217;s agent is not as qualified if they don&#8217;t do both listing and selling.  Warning a buyer before they buy, of the factors that will affect them when they try to sell, is a large part of the value added.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Ingalls</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-339998</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Ingalls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 13:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-339998</guid>
		<description>Interesting stuff.  Pretty clear differences in median price per square foot.

However, some school districts are distinctly regional, and have a great deal of variance in home price.  Take Renton SD, f&#039;rinstance.

3 distinct areas, roughly corresponding to the 3 high schools that serve each area.

Renton High=fed from Skyway, downtown Renton and a portion of Renton Highlands.  Most similar to South Seattle schools, and housing stock (lots of WWII era housing), furthest west.

Lindbergh High=fed from Benson Hill and Fairwood, most similar to Kent schools, lots of 70&#039;sd and 80&#039;s housing, furthest south and east.

Hazen High= fed from E Renton, Kennydale, parts of Newcastle, most similar to Issaquah schools, primarily a mix of 70&#039;s thru 2000 housing, furthest north and east.

I suppose folks coming from DC, or other parts far away may not understand the differences, but when I moved here from Seattle, it was pretty easy to grasp them. We looked at homes in the Issaquah, Renton and Bellevue school districts. I was primarily concerned about the SD&#039;s financial stability, test scores, job proximity, and of course, price, before deciding on the home we are in.  We are almost perfectly equidistant from a Bellevue, Issaquah and Renton elementary school, with a Bellevue address, but we are in the Renton SD.

It has been a very good experience, aside from having to frequently defend Renton schools to all of the folks that are ga-ga over Bellevue schools! :).  Fortunately, folks that are in the Issaquah SD don&#039;t seem as wrapped up in the school rankings. 

So, please excuse my boosterism for Renton schools....they are better than most people think!

Guess they won&#039;t be using THAT slogan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stuff.  Pretty clear differences in median price per square foot.</p>
<p>However, some school districts are distinctly regional, and have a great deal of variance in home price.  Take Renton SD, f&#8217;rinstance.</p>
<p>3 distinct areas, roughly corresponding to the 3 high schools that serve each area.</p>
<p>Renton High=fed from Skyway, downtown Renton and a portion of Renton Highlands.  Most similar to South Seattle schools, and housing stock (lots of WWII era housing), furthest west.</p>
<p>Lindbergh High=fed from Benson Hill and Fairwood, most similar to Kent schools, lots of 70&#8217;sd and 80&#8217;s housing, furthest south and east.</p>
<p>Hazen High= fed from E Renton, Kennydale, parts of Newcastle, most similar to Issaquah schools, primarily a mix of 70&#8217;s thru 2000 housing, furthest north and east.</p>
<p>I suppose folks coming from DC, or other parts far away may not understand the differences, but when I moved here from Seattle, it was pretty easy to grasp them. We looked at homes in the Issaquah, Renton and Bellevue school districts. I was primarily concerned about the SD&#8217;s financial stability, test scores, job proximity, and of course, price, before deciding on the home we are in.  We are almost perfectly equidistant from a Bellevue, Issaquah and Renton elementary school, with a Bellevue address, but we are in the Renton SD.</p>
<p>It has been a very good experience, aside from having to frequently defend Renton schools to all of the folks that are ga-ga over Bellevue schools! <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .  Fortunately, folks that are in the Issaquah SD don&#8217;t seem as wrapped up in the school rankings. </p>
<p>So, please excuse my boosterism for Renton schools&#8230;.they are better than most people think!</p>
<p>Guess they won&#8217;t be using THAT slogan!</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-339990</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 03:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-339990</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Tatiana.  I hope you found the info I gathered over the weekend to be of value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Tatiana.  I hope you found the info I gathered over the weekend to be of value.</p>
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		<title>By: Tatiana Hisel</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-339989</link>
		<dc:creator>Tatiana Hisel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 01:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-339989</guid>
		<description>And precisely because Ardell does NOT stay at arms length about anything, we are certainly going to hire her when we buy our house in the Seattle area.  Ardell dispelled A LOT of preconceptions I had about the area prior to contacting her and most likely, we are going to end up renting for our first year.  Thanks to her we are not entering this new phase of our lives with our &quot;eyes wide shut&quot;:) She has certainly set the bar very high for other realtors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And precisely because Ardell does NOT stay at arms length about anything, we are certainly going to hire her when we buy our house in the Seattle area.  Ardell dispelled A LOT of preconceptions I had about the area prior to contacting her and most likely, we are going to end up renting for our first year.  Thanks to her we are not entering this new phase of our lives with our &#8220;eyes wide shut&#8221;:) She has certainly set the bar very high for other realtors.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/05/26/sunday-night-stats-more-bang-for-your-buck/#comment-339980</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 22:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6346#comment-339980</guid>
		<description>Doug,

When I started in the biz agents didn&#039;t stay at arms length about anything of relevance to our clients. I still don&#039;t.

Since that time agents are trained to stay at arms length about mortgage info, qualifying to buy, inspections, school info...pretty much most of the things people pay us for :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>When I started in the biz agents didn&#8217;t stay at arms length about anything of relevance to our clients. I still don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Since that time agents are trained to stay at arms length about mortgage info, qualifying to buy, inspections, school info&#8230;pretty much most of the things people pay us for <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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