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	<title>Comments on: New Condo Buyers Seeking Out of the Contract: &#8220;Whiners&#8221; or Respectable Citizens?</title>
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	<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/</link>
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		<title>By: old guy</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-341181</link>
		<dc:creator>old guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-341181</guid>
		<description>Dont for get its not always all or nothing with EM one or both sides can offer a split and walk of the EM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dont for get its not always all or nothing with EM one or both sides can offer a split and walk of the EM</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-341115</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-341115</guid>
		<description>Glenn -- you are absolutely correct.  When deciding whether to spend money seeking the recovery of earnest money, the very first consideration is the amount of earnest money at issue.  In your hypothetical, a buyer would be making a bad decision indeed in hiring an attorney to chase $3k.  Attorney&#039;s fees will quickly surpass that amount so the buyer loses even if he wins.

However, your hypothetical is seriously off the mark in regards to new construction.  Specifically, EVERY developer requires 5% of the purchase price in earnest money, not just 1%.  Moreover, the majority of the new construction condos are &quot;high end&quot; and thus usually cost more than $300k.  Of the perhaps 30 people with whom I have spoken who want out of the contract, only two or three had earnest money deposits less than $20k.

So, in reality, buyers must decide whether to fight over a sum usually in excess of $20k.  If you can find an attorney to take the matter on a contingency basis, it makes sense to invest some funds in an effort to get some or all of the money back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn &#8212; you are absolutely correct.  When deciding whether to spend money seeking the recovery of earnest money, the very first consideration is the amount of earnest money at issue.  In your hypothetical, a buyer would be making a bad decision indeed in hiring an attorney to chase $3k.  Attorney&#8217;s fees will quickly surpass that amount so the buyer loses even if he wins.</p>
<p>However, your hypothetical is seriously off the mark in regards to new construction.  Specifically, EVERY developer requires 5% of the purchase price in earnest money, not just 1%.  Moreover, the majority of the new construction condos are &#8220;high end&#8221; and thus usually cost more than $300k.  Of the perhaps 30 people with whom I have spoken who want out of the contract, only two or three had earnest money deposits less than $20k.</p>
<p>So, in reality, buyers must decide whether to fight over a sum usually in excess of $20k.  If you can find an attorney to take the matter on a contingency basis, it makes sense to invest some funds in an effort to get some or all of the money back.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Sanford</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-341101</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Sanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-341101</guid>
		<description>Earnest money in many cases is going to be less then hiring an attorney to try and get the earnest money back.  Even so let&#039;s say the condos in question is $300,000 and the earnest money is 1% or $3000.  The project is completed 12 - 18 months later and property prices have declined 16% from when you negotiated the price on the condo.  Assuming that the developer hasn&#039;t created some obviously loopholes for the buyer to walk through it may simply be cheaper to walk away from the earnest money then to attempt through legal means to get it back.  In even the most basic of actions you are going to spend hundreds of dollars (close to $1000) and if its protracted with letters and accusations going back and forth well the money and the time you spend on this will only provide financial benefit to those who are arguing your position.

Why not treat the earnest money more like an option at least from the buyer&#039;s perspective.  You&#039;ve made and offer, its accepted and lets treat your $3000 as an option to purchase rather then an obligation to purchase.  A lot can happen between now and when the project is completed however you have tied up a unit for $3000 and if it turns out its the right decision for you then then lets complete.  If not then walk away.  In all likelihood if the market continues the way it has in the last couple of years you&#039;ll be able to walk away and turn around and buy it for a lower price anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earnest money in many cases is going to be less then hiring an attorney to try and get the earnest money back.  Even so let&#8217;s say the condos in question is $300,000 and the earnest money is 1% or $3000.  The project is completed 12 &#8211; 18 months later and property prices have declined 16% from when you negotiated the price on the condo.  Assuming that the developer hasn&#8217;t created some obviously loopholes for the buyer to walk through it may simply be cheaper to walk away from the earnest money then to attempt through legal means to get it back.  In even the most basic of actions you are going to spend hundreds of dollars (close to $1000) and if its protracted with letters and accusations going back and forth well the money and the time you spend on this will only provide financial benefit to those who are arguing your position.</p>
<p>Why not treat the earnest money more like an option at least from the buyer&#8217;s perspective.  You&#8217;ve made and offer, its accepted and lets treat your $3000 as an option to purchase rather then an obligation to purchase.  A lot can happen between now and when the project is completed however you have tied up a unit for $3000 and if it turns out its the right decision for you then then lets complete.  If not then walk away.  In all likelihood if the market continues the way it has in the last couple of years you&#8217;ll be able to walk away and turn around and buy it for a lower price anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Odds and Ends &#124; urbnlivn on Seattle condos</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-341049</link>
		<dc:creator>Odds and Ends &#124; urbnlivn on Seattle condos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-341049</guid>
		<description>[...] City Guide, New Condo Buyers Seeking Out of the Contract: “Whiners” or Respectable Citizens?  the buyers of those condos arguably have the right, under ILSA, to rescind the contract and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] City Guide, New Condo Buyers Seeking Out of the Contract: “Whiners” or Respectable Citizens?  the buyers of those condos arguably have the right, under ILSA, to rescind the contract and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-340910</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-340910</guid>
		<description>In fact, Jim, whether the Developer actually completes the building within two years is irrelevant. Rather, the inquiry focuses on whether or not the developer is OBLIGATED to do so at the time of contract formation.  Also, even where the obligation is illusory (and thus the Developer does not fall within the exemption), it still requires an affirmative rescission by the buyer -- the contract does not automatically terminate.  So, the law does give consumers the right to avoid their contractual obligations.

That said, we&#039;re arguing largely over semantics...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, Jim, whether the Developer actually completes the building within two years is irrelevant. Rather, the inquiry focuses on whether or not the developer is OBLIGATED to do so at the time of contract formation.  Also, even where the obligation is illusory (and thus the Developer does not fall within the exemption), it still requires an affirmative rescission by the buyer &#8212; the contract does not automatically terminate.  So, the law does give consumers the right to avoid their contractual obligations.</p>
<p>That said, we&#8217;re arguing largely over semantics&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-340903</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-340903</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Neither of us has likely ever had a client lose their Earnest Money, so it&#039;s probably a moot point :) Have a good night Ray.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither of us has likely ever had a client lose their Earnest Money, so it&#8217;s probably a moot point <img src='http://raincityguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Have a good night Ray.</p>
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		<title>By: ray pepper</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-340901</link>
		<dc:creator>ray pepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-340901</guid>
		<description>This is a horrid comparison but its what popped in my head.  

Johnnie Cochran was hired by OJ Simpson. Johnnie Cochran served his client until the end which was the conclusion of trial.  I assume he did not condone the acts that were committed by his client but none-the-less he fulfilled his duty.

I turn down many clients and also accept many.  When I enter into a Buyers Agency agreement I agree to serve my client and place their needs above all others.  This is how I do business and I also choose to terminate my Buyer Agency agreements.  

The earnest money is my clients committment to purchase. If &quot;life circumstances&quot; occur I fight for my clients earnest money refund to the best of my ability. I offer my opinion when warranted but still serve my clients needs until close of transaction or termination of agreement by either party.   

If fraud or deceipt is detected by myself I immediately terminate the agreement as you would.  We just differ in our opinions of practice.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a horrid comparison but its what popped in my head.  </p>
<p>Johnnie Cochran was hired by OJ Simpson. Johnnie Cochran served his client until the end which was the conclusion of trial.  I assume he did not condone the acts that were committed by his client but none-the-less he fulfilled his duty.</p>
<p>I turn down many clients and also accept many.  When I enter into a Buyers Agency agreement I agree to serve my client and place their needs above all others.  This is how I do business and I also choose to terminate my Buyer Agency agreements.  </p>
<p>The earnest money is my clients committment to purchase. If &#8220;life circumstances&#8221; occur I fight for my clients earnest money refund to the best of my ability. I offer my opinion when warranted but still serve my clients needs until close of transaction or termination of agreement by either party.   </p>
<p>If fraud or deceipt is detected by myself I immediately terminate the agreement as you would.  We just differ in our opinions of practice.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-340900</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-340900</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ray,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Your answer was: &quot;Good Luck…………..I tend to advise clients “C” and get letters from Lenders indicating you cannot close based on current income.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m sure you didn&#039;t mean that the way it sounds. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You also said: &quot;Your term “obvious” is in error. What is “obvious” to one person is NOT to another&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For professionals that is not the case when the language is clear and provided in the contract.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Still, I think attorneys are given the authority to move in different ways than an agent. Craig would know better than I, of course, but I&#039;m pretty sure that is the case.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ray,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If there is no reason why the seller should ever keep your client&#039;s Earnest Money, what IS Earnest Money to you?  Why do you collect it from your clients and give it to the seller? You don&#039;t have to.  There&#039;s nothing to say that the buyer HAS TO give Earnest Money. But if you don&#039;t know when it is the seller&#039;s &quot;right&quot; to keep it under the contract provisions, that would make it difficult for you to explain the risks against the Earnest Money to your client, if you feel there are none.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray,</p>
<p>Your answer was: &#8220;Good Luck…………..I tend to advise clients “C” and get letters from Lenders indicating you cannot close based on current income.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you didn&#8217;t mean that the way it sounds. </p>
<p>You also said: &#8220;Your term “obvious” is in error. What is “obvious” to one person is NOT to another&#8221;</p>
<p>For professionals that is not the case when the language is clear and provided in the contract.</p>
<p>Still, I think attorneys are given the authority to move in different ways than an agent. Craig would know better than I, of course, but I&#8217;m pretty sure that is the case.</p>
<p>Ray,</p>
<p>If there is no reason why the seller should ever keep your client&#8217;s Earnest Money, what IS Earnest Money to you?  Why do you collect it from your clients and give it to the seller? You don&#8217;t have to.  There&#8217;s nothing to say that the buyer HAS TO give Earnest Money. But if you don&#8217;t know when it is the seller&#8217;s &#8220;right&#8221; to keep it under the contract provisions, that would make it difficult for you to explain the risks against the Earnest Money to your client, if you feel there are none.</p>
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		<title>By: ray pepper</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-340896</link>
		<dc:creator>ray pepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-340896</guid>
		<description>hmmmmmmmmm...don&#039;t think I ever said lie.  Did I infer that from &quot;C&quot;? I would guess &quot;B&quot; would be a lie long before &quot;C&quot;.  I think you need to again reread the topic of discussion.

Is it unethical for a new construction buyer to seek a legal basis for getting out of the contract with a full return of the earnest money?

My answer is absolutely not............If my Buyer changes his/her mind I will personally seek to retrieve their earnest money back FOR ANY REASON.  If I&#039;m unsuccessful in arbitration then I will advise the client that I have done everything within my power.  I was hired by my client to represent them,  not push a transaction to close.  

&lt;strong&gt;Life happens&lt;/strong&gt; and although I may not agree with WHY my client wants out, I was still hired by them.  My obligation is and always will be to my client.  I think you are quite misdirected and again illustrating why real estate (the way it is practiced) is fundamentally flawed. 

When the golden carrot is achieved by closing a transaction,  interests of the agents always trump that of their clients.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmmmmmmmm&#8230;don&#8217;t think I ever said lie.  Did I infer that from &#8220;C&#8221;? I would guess &#8220;B&#8221; would be a lie long before &#8220;C&#8221;.  I think you need to again reread the topic of discussion.</p>
<p>Is it unethical for a new construction buyer to seek a legal basis for getting out of the contract with a full return of the earnest money?</p>
<p>My answer is absolutely not&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;If my Buyer changes his/her mind I will personally seek to retrieve their earnest money back FOR ANY REASON.  If I&#8217;m unsuccessful in arbitration then I will advise the client that I have done everything within my power.  I was hired by my client to represent them,  not push a transaction to close.  </p>
<p><strong>Life happens</strong> and although I may not agree with WHY my client wants out, I was still hired by them.  My obligation is and always will be to my client.  I think you are quite misdirected and again illustrating why real estate (the way it is practiced) is fundamentally flawed. </p>
<p>When the golden carrot is achieved by closing a transaction,  interests of the agents always trump that of their clients.</p>
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		<title>By: ARDELL</title>
		<link>http://raincityguide.com/2009/06/22/new-condo-buyers-seeking-out-of-the-contract-whiners-or-respectable-citizens/#comment-340892</link>
		<dc:creator>ARDELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raincityguide.com/?p=6699#comment-340892</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ray,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I strongly disagree. Under no circumstances are you to tell your client to lie and/or call the lender to come up with a bogus mortgage denial.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;NO, NOT, NEVER.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That is not within the authority given you by your real estate license. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There is a right and wrong in every contract, depending on the agreements made in that contract.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is wrong for a seller to try to keep a Buyer&#039;s Earnest Money when they want to cancel for a legal out.  If the contract says the buyer has the right to cancel on the home inspection by Friday, and they cancel on Thursday, it would not be right for the seller to try to keep their Earnest Money. It doesn&#039;t matter if my client is the seller and they WANT to keep the money in that situation. The buyer has the right to walk and take their Earnest Money with them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You and I have every obligation to assist our clients within the contract provisions.  Outside of the contract provisions, they need an attorney.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What happens if you help your client lie and say they can&#039;t get a mortgage (C in your example) and then they turn around and buy a different property with you?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would never hire someone who would lie FOR me to get something FOR me, because that means they would lie TO me to get something for themselves. I won&#039;t work with a seller who wants to lie to a buyer. I won&#039;t work with a buyer who wants to lie to a seller. Anyone who can stand in a room and help someone lie to win...is not trustworty. (In my opinion, of course.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray,</p>
<p>I strongly disagree. Under no circumstances are you to tell your client to lie and/or call the lender to come up with a bogus mortgage denial.</p>
<p>NO, NOT, NEVER.</p>
<p>That is not within the authority given you by your real estate license. </p>
<p>There is a right and wrong in every contract, depending on the agreements made in that contract.</p>
<p>It is wrong for a seller to try to keep a Buyer&#8217;s Earnest Money when they want to cancel for a legal out.  If the contract says the buyer has the right to cancel on the home inspection by Friday, and they cancel on Thursday, it would not be right for the seller to try to keep their Earnest Money. It doesn&#8217;t matter if my client is the seller and they WANT to keep the money in that situation. The buyer has the right to walk and take their Earnest Money with them.</p>
<p>You and I have every obligation to assist our clients within the contract provisions.  Outside of the contract provisions, they need an attorney.</p>
<p>What happens if you help your client lie and say they can&#8217;t get a mortgage (C in your example) and then they turn around and buy a different property with you?</p>
<p>I would never hire someone who would lie FOR me to get something FOR me, because that means they would lie TO me to get something for themselves. I won&#8217;t work with a seller who wants to lie to a buyer. I won&#8217;t work with a buyer who wants to lie to a seller. Anyone who can stand in a room and help someone lie to win&#8230;is not trustworty. (In my opinion, of course.)</p>
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