Lawyers Provide Better Representation – Part 4 of 4
Craig on 10 27, 2009
Please Note: This post is a thinly-veiled, shameless plug for a new business venture. If you find such a post offensive, please do not read further.
In three prior posts, I discussed the advantages of using an attorney, rather than a traditional real estate agent, particularly when buying a home. This post provides the fourth and final reason why this is true, and it also suggests at least one alternative model for the real estate industry that might do a better job of providing buyers with high quality representation.
Today, real estate agents are considered to be representatives of their clients who act in their clients’ interests. However, this is a relatively recent development. Historically speaking, agents were salespersons. They sold property just like a car salesperson sells cars. If you have any doubt about that, rent Glengarry Glen Ross. Even today, the buyer’s agent is officially known as the “selling agent.” Similarly, agents often note the number of houses that they “sold” over a particular period, even though the agent did not “sell” anything. Rather, the agents represented buyers who bought properties. “Selling,” i.e. actively persuading the client to buy the property, is simply inconsistent with “representation,” i.e. protecting the client’s interests as defined by the client. Continued use of the terms “selling” and “sold” in the real estate industry is telling.
In contrast, lawyers have always provided representation, period. There was never a time when lawyers were paid to convince their clients to buy anything. Lawyers are, and have always been, their clients’ representatives who are only concerned with protecting and advancing their clients’ interests.
So how can the real estate industry get from “here” to “there”? How can it reform itself so that it provides high quality representation to all buyers? The real irony is that, historically, lawyers were simply too expensive for a typical residential transaction. Today, though, agents (and particularly buyer’s agents, who have had success in preserving the “typical” 3% commission) routinely make more than what would be charged by an attorney. Long term, it would make a lot more sense — and be far more consistent with “representation” if buyers paid directly for the service. That’s not going to happen any time soon, though.
In the short term, perhaps attorneys can also act as brokers. They would provide essential agent services while also being entitled to the SOC at closing. The attorneys would then return the SOC to the buyer and instead be paid directly by the buyer. Now if only some clever attorneys could figure out how to do this…
About the Author: Craig Blackmon
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This will bring more than a few Comments I’m sure. As an architect, I’ve sold several of my own properties with the help of my attorney. I’ve also used skilled, experienced Real Estate Sales Agents who earned every penny of their commissions. JG
Jerry — as I noted in earlier posts, there is no shortage of anecdotal evidence about the superior service and representation of some agents. My point is that, SYSTEMICALLY, agents are not as well suited to representing buyers as attorneys.
As for me, I’m waiting for Ardell to weigh in. JG
OK, there have been some changes to the Real Rstate community and this web site since you started your series.
I’m just going to say that I have come to the conclusion, after this disgraceful selling season, that there needs to be significant change to the Real Estate brokerage system.
The 3% to a big brokerage company for doing nothing, and inerferring with sound business principles, needs to be better spent by the consumer.
It has to be hard to fing the suitable attorney for the job. Weird combination. Rgds.
Real estate agent has much knowledge that lawyer . Lawyer only for defensive approach but real agent knows pros and cons from all aspects
To all of you who don’t realize this change is on the horizon and this is evidenced my our profits along with Red Fin. Red Fin’s numbers are huge and have stepped in front of many Brokerages in terms of sales and profits.
Our 500 Realty model which started out with just a mere 30k investment has turned nearly 240k in revenue in just 3 years. Our data base of Pre Approved Buyers is sequentially growing month after month with Buyers just waiting until they find their home or for prices to drop further. Most feel we are still in a very unstable purchasing environment. Our Buyers are very astute and we get ALOT of over flow from Red Fin due to our low office minimum.
Craig, if you market yourself properly and truly give back to the consumer they will come to you. Glengary Glen Ross is one of my favorite films of all times and I must have watched it and The Boiler Room 5x.
The future of real estate is blatantly obvious to us at 500 Realty. Chris Nye who started MLS 4 Owners stated, “It will take years but it will be our children who will most likely benefit from our work.”
500 Realty, Red Fin, Zip, Shop Prop, HandSpring, Find well, and the many others coming also has limited time in my opinion. The Major Brokerages as we know them today will no longer function. Your duties as an Attorney in Real Estate will continue on but in a completely different manner. Real Estate Agents will be greatly diminished as will Title/Escrow.
The model I have blogged about many times was formatted by Google nearly 10 years ago and I believe we are less then 10 years away. I will simplify it for you all:
Buyers/Sellers will be represented by a “facilitator”.
The facilitator acts in equal interests to the Pre Approved buyer/seller. (This is where many remaining real estate agents will find a home.) The facilitator shows the home and is paid no commission just hourly. The facilitator will write up the offer and handle the paperwork which will all be supervised by counsel. This is where Craig comes in. The counsel supervises the entire transaction when on paper and will carry it to close and handle escrow.
Now here is the key to the future. The MLS system as we know it will collapse along with all the Major Brokerages and it will all be powered by a database backed by a Google/MSFT entity. This entity will be paid by the Buyer and Seller for their services (which they estimated at about 1.85% total). The 6% insanity will be gone and so will the Golden Carrot being paid to all these agents across the nation.
I believe the time is coming soon as Google did. With so many conventional agents working part-time, selling maybe 1-2 homes a year, and the rising discontent of Agents toward the MLS systems we are getting closer.
Position yourself Craig for the future and educate yourself about models that are currently very profitable and that seek to generate money off Lead Generation NOT Commissions and you will find what your looking for.
I just reread everything. Too many typos but thats what you get with 2 sick kids at home. If I’m wrong about the future and Google is way off then I’m very happy about the outlook of our position in the real estate market here in Washington and Arizona. Then Chris Nye was correct and said we are building this for our kids.
Either way I pound the table whan I say Lead Generation is the key going forward!
Ray–I think you left Findwell Realty out of your list of “discount commission” RE companies.
oops yes Findwell also.
But, Rhonda I also left out the biggest one of all. I would estimate 40-60% of the agents at Skyline would gladly give 50% of their commission back if the Buyer would just ask for it. Those desk fee independents are chompin at the bit for business. 75% would be a stetch. But, it never hurts to ask.
Ray — we differ on the importance of “lead generation.” That’s a sales term, and I’m not in sales. I believe I can make a good living by providing a valuable service (representation) for a fair fee (something much, much less than 3% of the purchase price). That said, we’ve certainly got some common ground.
Also, why the need for a “facilitator” if you’ve already got counsel? Any lawyer — at least any competent lawyer — is also a facilitator because the client wants to close the transaction and the lawyer must advance the client’s interests.
Instead, I envision a “brave new world” where agents work primarily for sellers by “selling” (in the true sense of the word) the property. Given inertia and entrenched interests, I suspect that agents will continue to have the ability to engage in the limited practice of law so sellers will not necessarily want or need a lawyer (unless, of course, the broker IS a lawyer and the “agent” is also a paralegal). Buyers, however, will use lawyers. Everyone, of course, will pay directly for whatever professional advice and representation they deem necessary (i.e., no more SOC).
Craig, according to Google the “facilitator” is far less expensive then the Attorney (obviously).
The facilitator is needed for the door opening and the neutral information gathering. Upon collecting the gathered information (P&S) the counsel–which I must report is very limited, certifies the transaction to progress to the next stage of inspection then close.
Its all done in total neutrality with counsel supervising the paperwork and advising the facilitator. The entity is paid 1/2 up front and 1/2 at close. A 500,000 home would cost Buyer/Seller 9250.00 or 4625.00 each.
Establishing the data base and dismembering the NAR is happening as we speak. Day by day, month by month we are getting closer to a far better way to buy and sell real estate.
Ray:
First, I’d be careful with your use of the word “obviously.” Attorneys are not always the more expensive option.
As for an attorney being “neutral” and “supervising the paperwork” — that simply does not make sense. It is a basic principle that attorneys are NOT neutral. Rather, they represent the interests of their client EXCLUSIVELY. Humans, ultimately, look out for themselves. Legal representation recognizes that fact. So I really don’t see the viability of this alternative model.
As for dismemberment (ouch!) of the existing MLS data base, the challenge as I see it is the creation of a trustworthy source of data. That requires monitoring, enforceable rules regarding data entry, etc. While Google et al. (including Zillow) are certainly capable of creating such a database, I’m not sure if or how it will replace the high quality MLS data.
According to the Google model Attorney’s are paid representatives of the said entity and are employees like the facilitator but are in a supervisory role of the entire transaction.
According to Google Attorney’s will be in a higher pay status for there will be far less Attorney’s then there will be facilitators under the model.
I know I know. As an Attorney you assume you are not paid that much in/re to the damage a real estate licensee can cause or the 6% they currently collect. But, according to your website you charge an hourly fee of 195.00 an hour and Marc Holmes charges 175.00 an hour. For 20.00 less are we better off with Marc Holmes? Why 20.00 less? Hmmm.
Purchase and sale between close family members is 1495.?? Are you kidding me?? ” When we provide this service, we do not take steps to protect the interests of either party or provide specific legal counsel–the parties must protect themselves. ” Why not have Marc handle one client and you the other so you can protect each party for 1495.00?
And you don’t think Attorney’s are expensive? My friends and I have been RN’s for 15 years. Most work the CCU and ICU for 30-45.00 an hour and save lives day after day. As an RN still working 2 nights a month at a Vent unit to maintain my skills I’m paid 36.60 with nightime diff.
Now this maybe a good deal:This fee includes our standard $895 flat fee plus $1000 payable to our affiliated real estate brokerage, Washington Lawyers Realty LLC (“WaLaw Realty”). $500 is due up front, and the balance is due at closing or billed six months later in three installments (whichever occurs first). By using WaLaw Realty as your limited service real estate brokerage, you are able to get some of the services of a “full service” agent, such as house tours. In addition, because we are also your agent, we refund the buyer’s agent’s commission back to you at closing (typically 3% of the purchase price). See WaLawRealty.com for more information.
But, how many showings does the Buyers get? We have clients who we have spent 6 months with and showed 20+ homes. Do you provide this service for this fee? Do you attend inspections? You cannot limit any Buyer in assisting them in the home of their dreams or charge them more. I sure hope you don’t do this under your model.
I’m not trying to question your model Craig but I want to point out that your model of real estate and ours are attempting to achieve the same purpose. We want to cause change in an industry that surely needs it. Its coming with or without us.
As we strive to give 100% back to the Buyer others look to extract more and more.
Ray:
I’m not sure of the relevance of several of your points above, but I will address them nonetheless. (1) Marc bills at a lower rate than me because I have an additional 7 years of experience; (2) The “Google” model (of which I am unfamiliar other than what you have stated) makes no sense and certainly does NOT provide better representation — it provides no representation at all, which I think everyone (but you and I guess Google) believes is a mistake; (3) nurses are grossly underpaid for the responsibilities they shoulder; and (4) feel free to continue reading the web site, as it explains that (a) we’re best suited for a buyer who has at least tentatively identified their own “dream home, (b) we provide 4 hours of tours for the flat fee, plus additional tours at $50/hr, and (c) yes we attend one inspection and one appraisal for the flat fee, with additional attendance at our hourly rate.
I will not get into why charging additional fees because a client takes more then 4 hours is horribly wrong. In the end those clients leave and come to someone else because no Buyer we have ever worked with would pay 50.00 an hour to tour homes. They would simply go to another Brokerage offering the same deal.
We estimate we spend 20 hours with each client touring, 4 on inspection, and another 6-10 on various other aspects. Around 35 hours per client. The Agent receives 2450.00 minimum per transaction or 70.00 an hour. In my opinion very very fair.
To ever charge fees on top of this I find very wrong. But, thats our model. We only ask clients to go drive by and see the neighborhood first. We don’t want to be the first one meeting our client at the home for the 1st time.
I respect your business model but again I feel it is far too expensive for the consumer shopping for a home. We can all do better in offering more to the consumer through Lead Generation.
Craig- Congrats on the new business model. I think it is will be a good addition to the mix. I think it is a far superior alternative to FSBO or some of the other Flat Fee models out there.
In my experience, the majority of buyers and sellers need much more than your company is offering. They start the buying and selling experience thinking that the process will be easy and they just need some help filling out some forms. If that were the case, my job would be easy and I would probably be bored.
I would love to see a model where a brokerage provided in house counsel, staging, photography, and an appraiser to help with CMAs. I think all are critical parts of the puzzle.
Good luck and congrats on putting your money where your mouth is.
Thanks, Geordie.
That model you’d love to see? I agree, I think its a great idea, although it needs to be a law firm that provides in-house brokerage services. If the broker has in-house counsel, then the attorney represents the broker, not any particular client of the brokerage. This is a fairly common misunderstanding of the role of a lawyer. “Legal counsel” must be tailored specifically to the client. Thus, attorneys are always asking themselves, “Who is the client?” A lawyer who represents the brokerage simply cannot also represent a client of the brokerage — at least not without, at an absolute minimum, informed consent of both clients, and even then representation may be prohibited the Attorney Rules of Professional Conduct.
However, that inherent conflict of interest is greatly reduced when the attorney represents the client but also provides brokerage services. The ethical rules governing brokers/agents are far less stringent than those that govern attorneys. Accordingly, it is much easier for an attorney to provide brokerage services than for a broker to include legal services to the client.
And getting back to that “full service” model you envision: I’ve got a big mouth and there’s room for more money…
Hi Jerry,
Sorry to keep you waiting for my “weigh in”
1) I believe in more and varied choices for consumers…especially buyers.
2) Craig is being very kind when he says: “Today, real estate agents are considered to be representatives of their clients who act in their clients’ interests. However, this is a relatively recent development.”
This “development” from an agency law standpoint is not recent at all. The change is 15 to 20 years old, depending on where you are in the Country. Plenty of time for NAR and traditional brokers to kick the “glenngary” habit. Yet the industry and brokerages generally have not embraced the needed changes Apparently they can only be forced to do the right thing by market forces coming to bear to force them into changing the way things are done inside the typical real estate office.
Clearly changing the simple terms of “Listing Agent” to Agent fo the Seller and “Selling Agent” to Agent for the Buyer would take about 60 seconds. Yet we still have “listing agents” sending emails to other agents saying “bring your buyers!” like they are cattle to be led to a slaughter.
Is Craig’s the “best” answer…doesn’t matter. Many and more options will help bring changes overall, and that’s a good thing.
3) Craig’s assertions with regard to “representation” vs. “sales” are spot on. I entered the real estate profession in 1990 from a previous career of fiduciary representation of people (Trust and Estate Officer). There was nothing in the 19+ years of my being a real estate agent that “taught” me how to represent a buyer well…I came to the industry with a working knowledge of representation. So I see nothing incorrect in Craig’s statements.
Something about this industry drags agents and companies into thinking that what they do is in a nutshell “touring homes, writing offers and closing deals”. I saw that quote in a recent Redfin blog post and was very saddened. It seems even when a Company starts out with a pure mission of not being like everyone else…somehow it all gets pulled back to same old, same old.
I would much rather see a Craig model that is sincere about representation of people, than one that thinks “lead generation” is the future, as Ray suggests.
It will take many more years to come for the industry to be fixed or dismantled. Either is better than the way it is.
While others pretend to be sincere there motivations are driven by the Golden Carrot. We have never had the Golden Carrot on any transaction in the last 3 years.
Questioning ones sincerity with their clients because they believe Lead Generation is the future of real estate is inept at best.
Come on Ardell, you can do better then that with far more thought conscious answers.
I dunno, Ray — I think Ardell’s response is thoughtful and insightful. You’re just peeved because she takes some exception to your business — an exception that she and I share. “Lead generation” is a concept that you have not fully explained as it relates to your business (I searched your site for info about this key component of your business, but there was none — what a contrast to my site!). From what we do know, it sounds a little shady — and in any event it fails to address one of the key shortcomings of the current standard model (sales vs. representation). Agents may be overpaid (based on a 6% commission model) but simply paying them less does not address this more fundamental issue. You’ve only solved part of the problem, Ray, and in the process you’ve just found another revenue stream to make up the difference, a revenue stream that strikes most people as a little shady (your “lead generation”0.
Shady? Hmm..All of our cards are on the table. Its all on the Website. Maybe this will help:
How lead generation works
The nature of lead generation depends entirely on the decision process of the buyer.
For complex products and services requiring a complex decision process, the keys are identifying the most likely prospects and then educating and qualifying them before deploying more expensive sales resources. The education benefits the buyer; qualification benefits the seller. This gradual lead cultivation process can go on for months and involve several individuals in evaluating a solution.
For commodity products, the rendezvous dilemma is one where two parties are seeking each other, but are obscured by time, distance, or attention. In essence there is a set of well-matched candidates for product purchase within a larger set of poorly matched candidates. Those well-matched candidates are what one is seeking to attract or identify in effective lead generation.
Although there are several methodologies and implementations, each involves one of two primary rendezvous strategies: Broadcast or Concentration.
Broadcast involves communicating to a broad set of candidates with the expectation of a statistical response back to the marketer. Advertising is a classic example of broadcast marketing rendezvous.
Concentration involves identifying and creating situations that concentrate well-matched candidates into a broadcast-effective set. Market segmentation and trade shows are classic examples of concentration-marketing rendezvous strategies.
[edit] Types of lead generation
Lead generation can take on various marketing methodologies:
Broadcast Advertising
Online lead generation
Direct Mail
Event or Trade Show marketing
Seminar or Training
Publicity and Public Relations
Whitepapers or Product Literature
Email marketing
Web marketing (Search Engine Optimization or other Internet Media buying)
Telemarketing
[edit] Online lead generation
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Z3LucrHOg
Running on CNBC daily with 1000’s of other advertisers seeking Leads.
Thank you, Ardell — clearly you understand my argument. I appreciate your weighing in on the issue.
Ray,
I think maybe we have a miscommunication about “lead generation”. Lead generation is wanting to be paid for doing nothing. Perhaps that is not what you mean by that term. Lead generation means getting lots of people to come because of a promise of low fees (golden carrot) and then using those “leads/people” to make money off them from something else.
There are many, many people trying to start companies every day that lead to making more money off the potential buyers and sellers than is revealed up front or even disclosed ever. I am on record of not being in favor of that model, regardless. Nothing personal.
I’m sorry..My tone once again may have been to harsh. But, I would just like to say two things:
1. I really like Ardell and I would hire her because with the commission you get so much more then 95% of the other agents out there.
2. ” we’re best suited for a buyer who has at least tentatively identified their own “dream home”
Craig, this statement is the problem with your model. Buying real estate is not that easy and you cannot limit a Buyer to this or that or charge them more due to a time frame. The insane practice of Red Fin not allowing their Buyers to offer in excess of 15% less then List is an atrocity. I truly hope they changed this policy. We could NEVER charge people more because after walking through 5 homes that they believed was their dream home turned out not to be….Its a horrible practice…….Last I checked it was being done by Shop Prop as well.
There are so many things that we “Game Changers” are all trying to do that cause more hardship or penalties on our clients that it continues to hamper the process.
I’m a fan of MLS 4 Owners because what you see is what you get. I attempt to always change 500 Realty for the benefit of the consumer month after month while keeping us profitable but never at the expense of the client.
I will go away now for another FEW months and pound heads at the Bubble.
Ray, your comments are contradictory. You link to a YouTube 500 Realty bit with the following text: “Wake up! You found your new home on your own – you earned the commission! Why give it to a realtor?”
In the very next comment, you tell me that any business model focused on buyers finding their own homes is an abomination! C’mon, Ray, you need to do better, at least here on RCG.
Also, I just don’t see a cause for outrage if we charge buyers for our time beyond what is encompassed by the flat fee. You may think this is not going to be successful because of what you believe buyers want. But to tell us we’re out of line to charge for our time?
As for “lead generation” on your web site — please provide the url. All I could find were advertisements for various other service providers, but no explanation that you sold that space and did not endorse those providers.
Glad I took the day off………
In the very next comment, you tell me that any business model focused on buyers finding their own homes is an abomination! C’mon, Ray, you need to do better, at least here on RCG.
??? I’m confused……There is no easy Buyer Craig. Most will exceed your 4 hour search. Thats my point. Don’t penalize people.
Would you start paying 50.00 an hour if YOU exceeded your limit? I think not. Nobody I know would. Don’t impose penalties on people! Why not refer them to another Brokerage instead of collecting checks?
Were here to change an industry I thought?
Most of those service providers you see are FREE on the website except some paid at one time or another to be on there a year or so ago. Since the market downturn we gave everyone on there a free ride. We have worked with all those but there are another 40+ that are not listed and are awaiting for our New Web Site that will be connecting Arizona and 500 Mortgage. I say in another 7 months you will see the NEW LOOK. I can’t wait and in an effort to save money we just left all the people on we started with.
I’ll try and explain, Ray.
- In YOUR ad, Buyer is told that he FOUND HOME ON HIS OWN and therefore he should get the commission, not the realtor.
- You then scold me for catering to buyers who FOUND HOMES ON THEIR OWN.
Make sense now? Your own ad presupposes that buyers find homes on their own and therefore should not pay their “realtor” the full commisison. Why is it wrong for my businss to ALSO cater to buyers who find their own home — or do you have that pitch trademarked??
As for “penalties” imposed because a buyer needs more than four hours of home tours: Buyers know EXACTLY what they are getting from our web site. This contrasts with yours, where notwithstanding your protestation your “lead generation” explanation — which is in very dense marketing-speak that doesn’t make much sense — is not easily found. If a client knows up front that they get four hours, and they then want to purchase more time, how is that a “penalty”?
I’ll let you have last word, Ray, so I will just close by pointing out that you are simply a cheaper REAL ESTATE AGENT, and as my post explains there are real problems with agents representing buyers.
fair enough…………..I doubt you ever charged the 50.00 extra an hour anyway.
OK, once again, where did my comment go?
It seems my other two comments made it in to the Rain City Guide, but the one outlining why using an attorney in a Real Estate transaction is a bad idea, a dead deal as it were, got lost.
Ardell can find it. It happened to me as well a few months back.
Or perhaps its all part of a global conspiracy orchestrated by lawyers… BWA HA HA HA [evil laugh]
David, worst case scenario: re-write and re-post. I’d like to know your thoughts.
David and Ray,
No comments from David in the Spam or Pending Comment bins.
If Ardell can’t find it David its gone. Too bad. I’m now eager to read it. You sure you hit submit not delete? Maybe you put 2 oz of Brandy not 1 this morning??
http://www.drinkswap.com/drinks/detail.asp?recipe_id=5395
It seems at least some of what has been discussed here already happens in attorney states like NY. The agent fills out an offer proposal, but the attorneys write the actual contract. Each side is represented by their own attorney from contract writing to close.
It’s a long comment.
The bottom line is that the State of Washington is an Agency State, we have Agency Law. As an attorney you are well aware that as soon as you submit a Purchase and Sale Agreement the other party has to be advised to get legal counsel. That should be done in writing if you are a Real Estate agent in the State of Washington. Otherwise the entire liability of the transaction falls on your brokerage.
If I am the listing agent and get an offer prepared by an attorney I have to advise my seller to get legal counsel. If they want to proceed they would be proceeding without me and I would ask for my full commission at that time.
Basically if a Real Estate agent gets anything from an attorney in a Real Estate transaction they need to refer the client to another attorney and bow out. It’s a no win for the real estate agent, the commission will always be at risk.
As an attorney you can explain this much better than I can. I’m surprised you haven’t disclosed the problem with your business model here in the State of Washington.
Oh, and telling me that other Real Estate agents have a different point of view just shows how naive the Real Estate community is and demonstrates the need for more experience.
David — I disagree. I see no reason why an agent would be REQUIRED to refer a client to an attorney if the agent receives an offer drafted on NWMLS forms. Now, if the agent received a non-NWMLS offer, then you might be right, and certainly it would be prudent for the agent to refer under that circumstance. As for the commission being “at risk” — not so sure of that either. Why would the listing agent no longer be entitled to the commission if the listing agent referred the client to an attorney? You’ll have to explain that one…
Please do not rely on information about current day real estate office operations from a 25-year old play or the film based on the play. It was a PLAY. It was fiction. Not based on my reality or anyone else’s that I know. There is no indication that the author, David Mamet, had any real estate experience. He was writing about an archetype, the play could have been any product, it just happened to be about real estate as a convenience. The play was not meant to be a comment on real estate but more an exploration of the human condition. Jeez.
Uh, Marlow? Actually…
The play is partly based on Mamet’s experiences working in a Chicago real estate office during the late 1960s.
I fully recognize that the play and movie are extremely “out there,” but they nonetheless give some insight into the historical culture of agents. Where else did the term “selling broker” — who is supposed to represent the buyer — come from? Why do agents talk about how many houses they “sold” — again, even though in some of those instances they were supposedly representatives and not sales people?
Why would the listing agent no longer be entitled to the commission if the listing agent referred the client to an attorney?
I said:
“I have to advise my seller to get legal counsel.”
“If they want to proceed they would be proceeding without me and I would ask for my full commission at that time.”
You’re an attorney. You are well aware of the laws of Washington State.
If you are filling out a boiler plate NWMLS Purchase and Sale Agreement why would any one hire you?
Once you put pen to paper it’s a whole different ball game. A Real Estate agent is not allowed to give legal advice. You, as an attorney, can only give legal advice. So we are at odds from the beginning of the transaction.
You are well aware that I would need to advise my party to get legal advice once you were involved. I would need to have them sign some thing saying I recommended that they get legal counsel.
You know this is a big can of worms, something you will no doubt make tons of money from. I’m simply making the point that a consumer is taking a chance of ending up with a dead deal by using your service.
David — someone would hire me because I’M A WHOLE LOT CHEAPER! Plus, if you think that, simply by using NWMLS forms you create a binding, enforceable contract that fully protects the client’s interests (there are many forms to choose from, you know, each with a different purpose) — well, that speaks volumes.
We will have to agree to disagree about your obligations to your client where the other party is represented by an attorney. You’re right, I can give legal counsel, and you cannot. But simply because one side has an attorney, the other side is not required to get one.
Finally, one upside of the current market is that most sellers are happy to receive an offer, regardless of who wrote it. So, we can operate outside of the “traditional” model without prejudicing our clients’ ability to get the house they want. In any event, there certainly will be some backlash from agents as you suggest — which no doubt violates anti-trust and consumer protection laws (blacklisting, rigging the market, and limiting consumer choice are generally frowned upon). So, like Mr. Pepper, we just have to educate, spread the word, and work towards a brighter tomorrow (where, in our case, clients get better representation for less money).
Oh, and as for “tons of money”? Gosh, I hope so….
where, in our case, clients get better representation for less money**
You know I really wish you and Marc Holmes would get more transactions under your belt before making statements on giving better representation. We know nothing of your partner and apparently hes the one showing the homes…Correct? He has the MLS key? Correct? According to the NWMLS he has only sold 3 homes this year……The market has been on fire and only 3?? Just to compare I have only sold 10 but it will be 15+ by the end of the year with some of these short sales closing. Our Brokerage will only have 30+ which is still way too little. Giving better representation is a very OPEN statement to debate. Does he answer the phone? Do you have more people to assist him at all hours of the week?
YOU may give clients better representation but what is Marc doing out there? Not much it appears. I try to be fair and I like what you are doing but an Attorney is disliked just as much as Agents and Used Car Sales People. You need to get your message out there and bulk up your numbers but this model will not do it. Agents don’t like Attorney’s just like the Public. Heck, Many Agents don’t like us either. But, its getting better. I think, with your current business model, you have a much more difficult road ahead then we do. Having agents like David and others feeling they are un an unlevel playing field with their clients will never assist your cause in profitability.
In essence you both need to team up with real producers that are offering something to the Public that will make all players involved utilize you again. I wish you luck. We need it as well.
Ray,
As Craig pointed out to Marlow, we’ve handled approximately 300 residential purchase and sale transactions since Craig opened the doors to our firm in spring, 2005. Is that enough?
You’re correct that WaLaw has not closed many transactions but we also just launched the website in late July/early August and haven’t done a single bit of advertising (that will soon change, although nothing as fancy as a booth at the Home Show). Happily, we did have a transaction close today, so I guess that means WaLaw is at 4. Like you, we also have a number of deals closing before the end of the year. Monday should be number 5.
You’re also correct that real estate agents, used car salesman, and attorneys do not enjoy the greatest esteem amongst occupations. However, I’m pleased to say that being a lawyer still carries some weight and we use it when we think it’s helpful. I make a point of not using it in the context of a client’s purchase or sale because it’s not necessary and I want the other party to feel at ease as much as possible. The simple fact is that I don’t bite and neither I nor my clients are looking to take advantage of anyone.
To the contrary, I have a strict ethical obligation to not mislead anyone as to whom I represent and to recommend they consult independent legal counsel whenever there’s the slightest hint of a conflict. I take my ethical duties very seriously and would never jeopardize my law license (or broker’s license for that matter) over the small flat fees that we charge. Our business reputation is much more important to us than a fee will ever be.
In any event, thanks for the well wishes and the same to you. I applaud anybody who’s trying to do something different in the world of real estate. I’m a long time fan of Redfin, Findwell, MLS4Owners, Lets Go Fizbo, Shop Prop, House Pad, and all the other innovators out there. We’re never going to replace Windermere, Coldwell, Johnny Scott, RE/Max and the other big boys as there will always be plenty of clients who want and need full service. But, I do think there’s room for us at the table.
Wow! 300! Thats excellent! I’m sold. Keep pushing and pushing! Forget the Home Shows..We have grinded those out for 3 years and I think there is a better use of time. However, our agents like going to them so we keep attending, but only the Spring Seattle Home Show.
I suggest you contact Kim Barkley at Comcast Spotlight. Our commercial’s run on CNBC/MSNBC and they are just 4.00 per spot (30 seconds) in the zone you target. Best bang for the buck. We pay 1500 every 6 months and get a great rotation. The commercial itself only costs 1000 to produce. This was ours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Z3LucrHOg
I wanted to star in it but they wouldn’t let me. They said I didn’t have the “look.”
Its all about education and offering a product people want. Not to mention outstanding customer service.
Good Luck!
Also, Ray, don’t confuse “service” with “representation.” Service is answering calls, working weekends, etc. While our service is outstanding (see the testimonials below) it certainly does not rise to the level of a VERY GOOD full service agent (for example, we try to take weekends off). Representation is protecting and advancing the client’s interests, a largely (but certainly not exclusively) legal task. Agents can engage in the very limited practice of law; lawyers, of course, have no restrictions whatsoever. Agents have some flexibility in regards to their duties to their clients (e.g., dual agency); lawyers are subject to a far more stringent standard.
One other thought:. We haven’t “sold” ANY houses. Rather, we have either assisted clients in selling their houses, or assisted clients in buying their houses. But we don’t “sell” — that is what agents do. Indeed, what on Earth is a “real producer”? What is being produced? Oh, wait, I think Ardell addressed that one above: agents produce buyers, who are led to the sale like cattle to the slaughter. Again, that’s not us — we’re lawyers, not agents.
Second,
So Craig, its safe to say you will NEVER be a “million dollar producer.” Or in the “Diamond Club” maybe a gentlemens club but never the “Elite Gold Circle.” No “Gold Sport Coat” for you.. Dang, I got so many of em..they always make me laugh.
David,
It’s almost as though you’re saying that by hiring us our clients are bringing a gun to a knife fight such that the other side has to go hire their own gunslinger if they want to survive high noon. On one hand I agree and take that as a complement. On the other hand, I must admit that you may be giving us a little too much credit.
We simply bring a little more knowledge and flexibility to the transaction which allows our clients to make better informed decisions and to know that we’ve prepared the contract to protect their interests as well as reasonably possible given the nature of the transaction.
Like any real estate agent we recognize that our clients are in the transaction because they want it to be successful. If anything, this is even more true for our clients because they pay us a portion of our fee up front thus they are, arguably, more committed. However, the beauty of our model is that we do not have the strong incentive that traditional agents have to make sure our clients go through with the deal. This is because we’re paid a flat fee that is not dependent upon a successful closing rather than a high commission which is entirely dependent upon a successful closing. We believe this is important because it substantially eliminates the inherent conflict of interest between a commission based agent and his or her client.
In sum, I’m happy to report that we deal with agents on the other side on a daily basis and, with the addition or our brokerage license, we rarely run into the problems you describe.
Regarding “Glengarry Glen Ross”, I stand corrected. David Mamet did work in a real estate office FIFTY YEARS AGO. A lot has changed in 50 years. We still had segregation 50 years ago. The world was a different place at that time. Do not take your perceptions of real estate from this play, it does not mirror reality. It is a work of fiction and it’s popularity was based on its exposure of the brutality of capitalism and the human condition. It could have taken place in any sales office. Real estate was a handy hook, but not the center of the film.
Oh, and BTW, I agree with David on this one. First time I see Craig or Marc’s face across the desk from me on some real estate transaction is when I get my own pitbull attorney. I’ve had enough deals ruined by lawyers to know better now.
Marlow — “in any sales office.” My point exactly. Historically, real estate agents were sales people. Yes, the world is different. As an historian (well, history major, more accurately), I know that our past influences our present. Just like we’re still dealing with racism 60 years after Brown v. Board of Ed, we’re still dealing with a “sales mentality” among real estate agents.
As for “pitbull attorney” and “ruined by lawyers”: Before Marc and I and a handful of other attorneys got into residential transactions, the attorneys who got involved were typcially “helping out” an existing client. Thus, they were often times litigators. Litigators have a much more adversarial perspective than transactional attorneys. Marc and I have now assisted approx. 300 people buy or sell residential real estate. We get that a transaction is NOT adversarial. Yes, each side must look out for its own interests, but each side also has the IDENTICAL goal: the purchase and sale of the property. A good attorney — like Marc, like me — recognizes that common interest and tailors the legal counsel accordingly.
I should also add that, IMHO, a “pitbull attorney” is not a good attorney, even where the matter is being litigated. Rather, pitbulls (forgive me, pitbull owners, for just running with the analogy that gives pitbulls a bad name) have a sigle-minded focus and want only to vanquish the foe. If the attorney has that focus, then the attorney will ignore several other, equally important considerations, including the financial costs to the client in comparison to the benefits that the client hopes to obtain through the litigation. I’ve worked cases against pitbull attorneys, and I can tell you that their client ended up being far worse off than if the attorney had taken a more comprehensive look at the dispute rather than taking the “pitbull” apprach. So, Marlow, you may not be doing your clients any favors by referring them to the “pitbull” counsel of your choice.
Marlow,
You have always struck me as someone who is very passionate about her work and more than capable of doing it well. I sincerely doubt you’d have any trouble being on the other side of the desk from me with or without a pitbull attorney. Either way, I look forward to it when the day comes (and I’m sure it will eventually) so that you can see for yourself how bad or not so bad I really am. In the meantime, take a look at our testimonials page. They’re all real clients and I hope you’ll see that I’m actually a pretty nice guy who just happens to be good at his job.
To make it easy for everyone:
Sellers
Buyers
And at least one more here
Note: This is not a plug but a response to some rather heavy comments above.
I think we all understand but maybe were frightened. As an RN for 13 years and always challenging the Doctors with their orders and medication protocol to a Broker for 12 years in different states I personally would love to engage in any aspect of residential and commercial real estate contract law.
There should never be fear in engaging with peers in ones profession. I just always have questions. Since I entered Real Estate I have never seen so many incompetents licensed as Agents. However, in my life, I have also witnessed 4 Attorney’s that were equally inept.
In the medical field I have seen true professionalism but also some very dangerous practitioners.
We professionals must be advocates for our clients. It is the weak and unknowing that always suffer the most.
As to- “Since I entered Real Estate I have never seen so many incompetents licensed as Agents”- this can be said about a lot of fields- including my own. JG
I have absolutely no trouble or worries about sitting across the table from Craig, or most any attorney. #justsayin’
The problem is the attorney brings nothing to the table. An attorney can only, let me repeat only, give legal advice. The consumer needs to know what questions to ask to get the answers they want or need.
An attorney in a Real Estate transaction is only representing themselves. If we were in a court of law you need to know what to say, how to say it, and the law pertaining to what is being said.
In a Real Estate transaction an attorney, as I have already pointed out, is an impediment.
Now you say you have written 300 Real Estate transactions. How many closed? Did you go over the closing documents and give legal advice concerning those documents? Were those documents in your clients best interest?
Be careful, you are entering a gun fight and you are unarmed.
“Be careful, you are entering a gun fight and you are unarmed.”
Love that line David! Classic!
Craig and Marc are very tame and hardly bite at all.
I’m persuaded that the more complex the transaction the more you want legal advice, both to head off problems and to be able to respond quickly and firmly if anything looks like it’s coming unstuck. Even with a standard NWMLS form, you’re likely to be writing in something extra, and you have to think several moves forward.
OTOH the experience and social antennae of a good agent are very helpful. Not everything can be written down in contract language, and there are things about the structure and pacing of the negotiation process, and understanding where you can and can’t push, that are hard to learn.
The question is whether those skill sets and kinds of experience can be combined in one person, or whether you need better ways to get lawyers and agents to collaborate.
Colin (and David) — I see no reason why those skill cannot be combined in one person. After all, the “experience and social antennae” of a good agent are not skills necessarily unique to an agent — there is no required 30 hour course called “Social Antennae” that must be completed before getting a RE license. So, there is no reason why an attorney — particularly one who handles residential transactions on a very regular basis — cannot provide legal counsel AND social-antennae-reception.
David, for the life of me I cannot understand why you are so adamant that an attorney can ONLY provide lega advice. What, exactly, is the basis for this statement? Of those approximately 300 deals, most of them closed. Of course, whether they “closed” or not is important only to each specific client. We don’t care — except to the extent that our client cares — about closings, so its an artificial metric, as far as we’re concerned. Just one more distinction between us and you, David.
What does that mean?
It’s sounds adversarial, but it doesn’t say anything.
“Of course, whether they “closed” or not is important only to each specific client. We don’t care — except to the extent that our client cares — about closings, so its an artificial metric, as far as we’re concerned. Just one more distinction between us and you, David.”
“We don’t care”
That I agree with. You don’t care. You are asking people to give you money. The hope is that if you say you are an attorney that will give some value to you filling out a Purchase and Sale Agreement.
The thing is that as an attorney you can’t suggest, you can only advise. You are well aware of that. Once you suggest, or to use the Real Estate term, puff a property, you are outside of your duties as an attorney.
As an attorney you have the full burden of the legal system to bear on your Real Estate transaction. When you are dragged into court, or arbitration, you are held to that higher standard, so you had better have protected yourself.
To a consumer you can spin this anyway you want, but they are the ones who get less for paying more.
Any one who would ever consider this approach would be better served to buy the Forms to fill out, fill them out, and if you have the desire you can ask an attorney, in a multiple choice method, what would best to write in. You should be aware that from the time you retain legal counsel the other party should have legal counsel.
It’s a can of worms and you know it. Trying to obstruct that truth seems kind of wrong to me.
David,
You’ve been an active poster on numerous blogs for quite some time so I’m familiar with your writing style which is, to be polite, quite unique. You’re fully entitled to your opinion but I’ve got to ask, have you had some bad experiences with the legal system or with certain attorneys in particular?
You seem to have some real animosity towards us because we’re attorneys. Then again, perhaps it’s simply because we represent a rival to the current status quo. It comes to mind that you have constantly needled Redfin over the years. Do you still insist on referring to them by silly names instead of their actual name (e.g., Radfun, Redfool, etc.)?
David — you’re absolutely right. We don’t “puff a property.” We’re not salespeople. Our seller clients are essentially “For Sale By Owner” who have listed on the MLS via WaLaw Realty. Our buyer clients find the property that best suits them. We never — ever — “puff” a property to our buyer clients (although we certainly give our opinion about the property when asked). Again, we’re lawyers, not salespeople.
Also, you keep telling me that I am “well aware” of the limitations imposed on me as a lawyer, even though I have repeatedly informed you that I am unclear on the “law” that imposes this restriction. Again (and for the final time — I’ll give you the last word if you evade the question one more time), what is the legal basis for these limitations or restrictions?
And as for “paying more” — what are you talking about? I understand the “getting less” part. I don’t agree, but I recognize that we are not real estate agents and therefore do not provide the “full service” that an agent is generally expected to provide. But the simple truth is that we charge much less than a “full service” agent. So what are you talking about when you say our client “pays more”?
Craig and Marc,
The majority of good advices are property specific, and a thorough knowledge and study of the property at hand is pre-requisite to “good advices”. To suggest one can sit in an office with lots of paper, and give good advices to a buyer or seller of real estate, is a false read.
Case in point. I recently went to Miami for a 4 day trip. I visited property before I left with out of town clients. The day I left I had an agent “fill in” and show 30 additional properties that I knew were by and large “unsatisfactory” relative to the 12 I viewed with the clients before I left.
I received a call that the clients wanted to buy one of those 30 properties I had not personally seen. Fine. On computer “the one” of the 12 we narrowed down to when I was with them and “the one” of the 30 looked about the same. I wrote it up…I negotiated – all from Miami and the airport on the way back.
The plane landed…I went to the property and said OMG! No WAY! This property is not satisfactory. I pointed out why to the clients and they agreed and we shifted to the one we had in play beforeI left for 4 days.
I asked the agent I left “in charge”…”Did you not SEE that???” Her response: “Yes, but they liked it.”
Good advices cannot be good advices without thorough study of THE property and good advices cannot be good advices if the professional in the room is not well versed in all aspects of real estate. Perhaps the negative of that property would not come back to bite the client in the butt until they tried to sell it. But that is no excuse for not highlighting the resale negative at time of purchase.
Good advices with regard to the buying and selling of real estate is not about the # of buyers and sellers you “write up”…it is about the # of properties you have seen and not seen.
Ardell,
I agree whole heartedly that “thorough knowledge and study of the property at hand” is critical. I think you’ll agree that knowledge of the immediate area around a property is similarly important and of the broader market generally. Add to that knowledge of the mortgage, escrow, and title industries that directly impact the overall value that the client is trying to maximize.
Where I think our perspectives differ is on who must obtain that knowledge. We believe that it need not reside all in one person. Instead, we believe in a collaborative process where we combine our considerable knowledge of real estate with our client’s site specific knowledge and we bring in the experts to help fill in any gaps, i.e., inspectors, structural engineers, geotechnical experts, plumbers, HVAC guy, whatever the situation calls for.
We also believe that we are not for everybody. The client in your example who wants to be shown over forty houses should not use our services. There’s no doubt that we are not the right fit for that person. We are not a traditional agent. Instead, we seek to fill a niche for a subset of the buying and selling public.
Our typical client is analytical, well educated, and very hands on. They do not want someone to take them by the hand and tell them everything they need to know. Rather, they want to have more control over and responsibility for their transaction. More often than not they’ve had prior experience with a bad real estate agent and saw that this person brought very little to the table. Or, they’ve spent considerable time watching the market in the area they want and have found the home that fits their needs and only need someone who is impartial and knowledgeable to help them complete the process while protecting their interests (i.e., helping them avoid bad decisions and pitfalls).
For these folks we strive to empower them to make their own decisions and to pay for only those services which they want. For them, three percent of the total purchase price is way too much because they simply don’t want and do not place such a high value on traditional “full service” real estate agency.
But, let me be clear, I don’t mean to say that such full service doesn’t have value or that it should be abolished. Quite to the contrary, I believe it has significant value for the majority of the public. That’s why we see ourselves as a niche player. We will never run Windermere, Coldwell Banker, or any of the big boys out of business nor is that our goal. Rather, we see an underserved niche and we’re trying to fill it. Admittedly, Craig’s headline for this series of articles is flamboyant and evocative but that’s because it has to be or else nobody would read it.
Wow, very sad to hear that Marc. I would have never started 500 Realty with partners if I was looking to fill a niche market. I believe 500 Realty is for 95% of Buyers and Sellers. Its a shame you feel that your position is so limited. Red Fin, MLS 4 Owners, Findwell, Shop Prop, Iggy’s, HandSpring, and 1000’s more coming (as long as the MLS system stays intact) have very high hopes of changing an industry not filling a niche.
Ray,
Clearly your niche is for those who need less for less. If you would serve one who needs more for more, you would lose the integrity of your model. Every model serves a niche…there is no one size fits all real estate.
You take it as far as you can for less…but when as far as you can is not good enough, I assume you would refer to the more for more model, as Redfin does…no? Not every prospective buyer or seller’s need fits the $500 cost model for sure.
Marc,
Where you err is in buying into the myth that others “charge” the same as one another, and more than you. That is a broad brush and incorrect assumption. I do not charge the same for all clients, and many if not most agents operate as I do. That the seller “offers” X in the mls is not reflective of the cost of that service via agents, anymore than it is reflective of the cost when using you. Though it is likely reflective of the upper limit to cost in most cases, it is not the actual cost in all cases.
When and if I have a client with the needs that fit your niche market, I may charge them the same as you do or less or more. For you to assume I charge more is a bit presumptuous at best.
Craig and Marc,
That is not to say that you cannot become “expert” at these things. I am simply trying to shed some possible light on David’s comments. I mostly do not agree with David, ever. So I am not a good candidate for explaining what David is trying to get at. The “weaknesses” in your model, as I see them at present, are my own opinion.
No one…not even I…can be “an expert” and maintain expertise in “real estate” from behind a desk. Real Estate “law”…yes. “Real Estate”…no.
Another recent “case in point”…and believe me I have one case in point for most every real estate transaction proving “paper” cannot be the be all end all of any real estate transaction.
Rotted post. Inspector cannot possibly determine if this is a serious problem or not as the decorative exterior of the post might be hiding a more extensive problem inside the decorative exterior. Inspector is not permitted to tear apart the rotted exterior to see inside it.
Seller will give NOTHING…absolutely nothing at inspection, because he underpriced the house and was trying to get out of the contract from day 2. So no “lawyer” negotiating would be of value here. Seller was not going to give a dime.
The buyer had the advantage by about $15,000 from the get-go as to price, even at full price. The seller was hoping the buyer would walk away so he could re-list the property for $25,000 more. This property was unique and I could not find a similar house or one at this reduced cost within the buyer’s timeframe to purchase. Not a product or cost that could reasonably be duplicated.
It was a judgement call as to whether this was a huge structural problem (potentially) or a simple cosmetic fix. I reserved from my commission the high end of the cost to fix, best I could determine based on my gut and experience. We closed and my “reserve” was more than sufficient to fix the problem.
My “gut” call on this was based on my experience with this type of home in PA…not Seattle…as this type of home is more common there than here.
No paper trail or negotiation would have resolved this matter well for the buyer client. No lawyer is a good replacement for a good agent, but any lawyer is a good replacement for a not so good agent.
Ardell — I appreciate your points. Subject to whatever Marc may add, I think you and I are on essentially the same page (although I put more value in “legal services” than you do). I would only add that your services are extremely expensive — indeed, so expensive that you felt comfortable setting up the “reserve” for your client out of your own pocket. I assure you, our profit margins are not nearly as thick. So, consumers need to weigh the benefits of a good “full service” real estate agent against the very substantial fee charged by such a professional. I think that determination will be influenced by the knowledge, experience, and sophistication of the buyer — the less so, the more the client needs “full service.” There is, of course, no right or wrong answer, only the answer that is best for any individual client.
Craig,
I do not know your cost, nor do you know mine, so I can’t answer that. I do know that I am willing to walk away with nothing or less, if the situation calls for that. So my”gut” needs to be pretty right
Ardell — my fees are a matter of public record — see the firm and brokerage sites. Tell you what? Why don’t you have a quick look and then let me know whether you charge more, less, or about the same?
Craig,
I took a quick peek and where our services are a match, which is not often if ever, we are close as in family to family, though I do not find a match due to your restriction that it be seller financing and owned free and clear.
I fully support your option as an option. As I said to Marc, the only part that “bothers” me is your assertion that everyone else always costs 3%.
Ardell — any chance we could agree on the following?
1) Buyer’s agents are usually offered a 3% commission;
2) Some agents — including you — will accept less, and sometimes much less, depending on a variety of circumstances; and
– here is the tough one –
3) You generally charge much more than us (our flat fee is $1895) but you provide many more services in exchange (such as your own thorough inspection of ALL of the properties that the buyer is considering).
If we agree, then we must also agree that “full service” comes at a commensurate price. We want to give consumers an option in this regard.
In addition, based on our prior exchanges, I think we also agree that many agents charge a “full service” fee (i.e. 3% of the sale price, paid by the seller) without providing the high quality service that should accompany such a fee. [Please note that the same could be said for attorneys, accountants, and any other service provider.] Given this reality, it would be nice — indeed, it is nice — for consumers to have an option to the “full service” price, which historically has not been true. The extra benefit to our model is that, in at least some respects, one aspect of the service (legal representation) is superior to that of the historical, full service model, while costing less.
Honestly Marc attorneys and I have always gotten along. Craig you know full well that I’m not an attorney, that was just a silly ploy.
As far as refin goes The internet keeps track of mentions so I misspelled the name as long as they were intent on being a business model. They are now a dead concept looking for a buyer. They are the face of corporate America. They will be a Coldwell Banker, or probably a Prudential business affiliate.
I don’t like them, or in particular the Glenn guy, because they went to Congress on a publicity stunt then bad mouthed the entire Real Estate Industry. After berating Real Estate agents they claimed every one was against them.
Again Marc, another bad ploy, just silly.
If you guys want to be Real Estate agents then do that. As attorneys you have extremely limited parameters to work within.
You are held to a much higher standard, as it should be.
Any agent can run you into the ground, but what they need to do is advise thier client to retain legal counsel.
Your charging $1895 to fill out paper work and making a client feel good. It’s just a complication that needs to be over come. It’s an annoyance, that’s all.
You all seem like nice people, but the consumers are getting the stuffings kicked out of them. Buyers and sellers need tangible direction to make sound financial decisions. Prices are declining and will continue to decline.
When the 2010 Census statistics come out the disparity between house values and rental income will be extreme. In addition commercial loans will be maturing at the 5year, 7year, and 10 year balloon payment deadlines from the highs of 2006, 2006, 2007. Whose going to buy those properties, or refinance them?
Me? I’m one of the most hated men in Real Estate. It’s my business and it is a brutal business. The only way you know where the bodies are buried is if you have planted enough of them. An attorney? Please, we aren’t going to court. You’ve got nothing. While you were in college trying to figure out how to become an attorney I was doing deals. It’s all I know.
300 deals? Did you do that in a month? For filling out paper work you could do 10 a day.
Come on, you seem nice, and there is real work that needs to be done. Many people have been swindled. These are not savvy investors, these are mom, dad, and the kids, who have lost everything so some brokerage house could get a few grubby dollars.
Doesn’t that make you sick? Doesn’t having some one like Warren Buffet make billions of dollars on Wells Fargo stock manipulation make you sick? Should people really be paying over inflated prices for a declining asset value, or should they sue.
If you want work, how about a class action lawsuit in favor of people with mortgages?
Wow, this thread just keeps on going. I can’t stop laughing. Craig, Marc, and Ardell are gonna think you missed a dose tonight.
3%, 6%, 0%…Damn who cares at this point…..After listening about the cop who got killed in Seattle on Halloween it puts everything into perspective. I almost broke into tears twice listening to the police call from the partner…………..
Real estate agent has much knowledge that lawyer . Lawyer only for defensive approach but real agent knows pros and cons from all aspects. I think, with your current business model, you have a much more difficult road ahead then we do. Having agents like David and others feeling they are un an unlevel playing field with their clients will never assist your cause in profitability.
AZ DUI Lawyer — what is it, exactly, that gives agents so much more knowledge than lawyers? Are lawyers for some reason incapable of learning the same things as agents? Do they have some mental impairment that prevents them from knowing “pros and cons from all aspects”?
I agree that, if agents are put off by our representation, that makes our job a little more difficult. However, in this market I think every seller is thrilled to get an offer, regardless of who represents a buyer. Plus, as agents get to know us, they’ll find out that we are consummate professionals who want exactly what our clients’ want — to buy or sell a particular house. We’re not only for “defensive approach.”