44 thoughts on “Update on Sixty-01 Seattle Area Appreciation”

1. Thanks Ardell.

2. Nice stats…it would be interesting to see this on a graph. The prices seem to be hanging in there however the number of sales per month decreased.

3. I think it’s safe to say that the other post I wrote showing 16% appreciation in 2007 is still holding. I used a different complex on 148th for that post, and will revisit it at year end. If you look at the average as $230,000 or so a year ago and call today’s value $267,000, that’s 16%. Didn’t use the two that went to and over $300,000 as those had new kitchen cabinets. No granite counters though from what I could see.

   I don’t remember exactly how I wrote the post back in February, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t use all closings as I did this time. I was just showing the price trend. So going back before 1/17/07 up there to see number of units sold will not be accurate except as to price trend.

   I’ll try to go back and do a graph of all units sold for a few years.

4. Important to note that loose lending did not impact prices in sixty-01, as you could not buy there for less than 10% down during the height of the market. So appreciation there from 2005 to 2007 can not be pinned to loose lending standards. That fact makes it one of the best examples of what appreciation would have been without loose lending standards.

   I’ll have to check the 2007 closings to see if and when zero downs may have kicked in. But for the longest time lenders required 10% down or more in Sixty-01.

   The increase in prices from $118,000 to $180,000 or so had nothing to do with loose lending standards back in 2005 in this complex. That’s what makes it a good example of appreciation not fueled by sub-prime lending.

5. Ardell, why could you not buy with less than 10% down? What was restricting the down payment?

6. Pending lawsuits regarding special treatment of The Declarant for the most part. With 83 acres of land and over 770 owners, there’s always a chance there will be a suit floating around.

   While the appreciation looks good, it would have been much higher if not for the pending suits. I’ll check and see if the sales this year were all done with 10% or more down and report back. Perhaps a graph showing both appreciation and the downpayment amounts would be interesting. This way we can see if needing to have less downpayment influenced the prices. But from what I observed as it was happening, I do not believe that to be the case.

   The highest prices are based on more remodeling. Condition and location within the complex of each unit sold are the key valuation factors.

7. Pretty sure the name Sixty-01 comes from the address of 6001 140th Ave, only eight blocks to Microsoft Red-West Campus. They were thinking of changing the name awhile back, as many think it is “Sixty” because it was built in the sixties.

   I believe it was originally built as an Adult Community rental complex in phases from 1968 through 1972 and converted to condos without age restriction in the late seventies.

   The HOA took over in 82 but The Declarant did not leave in total, as they usually do. As monthly dues rose to maintain the huge complex, and to take care of deferred maintenance issues, the Declarant’s limitation on monthly dues increases for Declarant only caused a lot of controversy. Hence the lawsuits raised by a resident or two against the HOA. I believe those are resolved and out of appeal, but not positive.

   As more people remodel and sell their units, I think you will see the owner occupant level rise from the current 60% or so. I like to see no more than 1/3 rented to 2/3 owner-occupied. The linked site is showing roughly 40% rentals.

8. Rhonda,

   I think I’m getting my preference for not more than 1/3rd rented from old FHA guidelines. Do you know the FHA requirement for rental ratios?

9. I believe that a spot approval requires 51% to be owner occupied. Let me double check that info. I’m running off to an appt. I’ll follow up and confirm or deny. 😉

10. I’ll add that if a condo complex has been removed from the FHA approved condo site, they must get reapproved with FHA (no spot approvals).

11. This is fascinating. Thank you very much for posting this data.

    We are looking to move to the Seattle area in Summer 08 and would like to start with a townhome in a complex like 6001.

    We prefer the north Seattle area (queen anne, magnolia, ballard, fremont, and north etc…) but are pretty open if we find the right area / complex. We like the idea of a secure complex where an HOA maintains a certain standard for infrastructure.

    Does anyone know of any other type of townhome communities in the Seattle or East area?

    Also, how is public transportation to downtown Seattle from these places? We have lived in San Francisco and Boston and are accustomed to taking mass transit.

    Thanks!

12. Ardell, just confirmed that 51% owner occupied is required. Plus, no one entity can own more than 10% of the units to provide a loan with FHA financing.

13. Rhonda,

    Can you see if 60-01 is on the FHA approved list?

14. Derrek,

    60-01 is very unique. In Seattle most townhomes are single family and not condos and so have no HOA dues to cover maintenance. Mostly 3 to 8 townhomes built on small parcels here and there. Originally they were between single family homes, and many still are. In some areas the builders have, over time, gotten a whole street here and there in North Seattle and Ballard, Frement, Green Lake. But they are not complexes.

    Eastside has many. Rivertrail over by Redmond Town Center is newer, built 1995 – 1997 and the cost just under $500,000 or so these days. Seattle Townhomes are mostly in the $450,000 give or take range with 2 bedrooms up and one bedroom down for the most part.

    I’ll check the public transportation. My daughter sometimes takes the bus from Kirkland over to her job down near the Space Needle. I’ll see if she’ll let me interview her about the experience 🙂

15. Great thanks Ardell. We have been researching online and have mostly found what you mentioned with townhomes here and there for between 400k and 500k. Right now we are looking in the Magnolia area since it is closer to Downtown by transportation.

    I would be very interested to find out about your daughters take on the public transportation system as it seems that most of the blogs I have found people tend to drive in the Seattle area.

    Thanks for the feedback!

16. Ardell, I’ll check. Are there many phases?

17. Since they were rentals during the building phases, I don’t think that matters. By the time they converted to condos, they did that all at once. So I don’t think the number of phases will be relevent. Of course all the building happened while I was in high school in Philadelphia, in fact exactly the same years. So I’m gleaning this info from my past tense research 🙂

18. I think some of your numbers above might be incorrect. I’m not sure where you are getting them from, but I am the new owner of the townhome that was bought at 308k. It had been listed at 310k.

    The previous owner bought it in 9/2002 for 130k. (see below for KC records link). It was later refinanced for the amount listed above. He did extensive down to the studs remodeling work. A couple of the other townhomes currently on the market in the same price range have not had as much work done to them.
    I would caution use of my townhome sales price as a comparison to other Sixty-01 townhomes because of its uniqueness in how extensive the remodel was.

    Also, I bought my home with less than 10% down.

    http://146.129.54.93:8193/imgcache/OPR20020919001780-1-8.pdf

19. Thanks for popping in Nicole! Yes, I did note the remodel. I would have shown the photos as they were fabulous, but I’m not permitted to do that under mls rules. If you send me a photo of the kitchen, I’ll post it as it would be nice to encourage more remodels to support higher prices at Sixty-01.

    I’ll re-check the data from top to bottom. Good to hear the 10% down issue was resolved. That will help prices at Sixty-01. Last I checked the issue was about resolved and some lenders were willing to go as low as zero down. While I’m re-checking the data I’ll post the overall downpayment summary, though I don’t post individual info regarding mortgage matters. Just the trend for general educational purposes.

20. Regarding financing, at least 5 of the sales shown in the post were zero down purchases. Of note, the property that sold for $130,000 in 02 and $308,000 in 07 after the remodel appears to have been purchased for $135,000 in 2000. So fluctuations have been fairly dramatic, as was shown in my previous post that went further back.

    It’s clearly a unique complex and lifestyle. One that would be almost impossible to duplicate today.

21. All this talk about my old condo… I’m blushing.
    Nicole, Sounds like you are still happy with the purchase. Have you got the kegorator working yet? It broke my heart to leave that behind.

    I’m the previous owner of the $308k unit. I bought it for $130k in 2002. I only had 3% down but I financed through my credit union. I have heard from a number of different people that it can be tricky to get financing in 60-01 from some banks.
    I spent a year and about $50k on the remodel between 2005 and 2006. My Dad and I did most of the work ourselves (except where licensed experts were required) which saved a LOT of money. We took most of the rooms down to the studs and subfloor including the kitchen and bathrooms. We re-insulated, updated a lot of the electrical, replaced the front and deck doors, and finished it with wood molding and window wraps. In the process we filled all of the gaps in the subfloor and around the plumbing and fixed a lot of things that were not up to code. I was really doing the remodel for myself and didn’t have any intention of selling it at the time. After all that effort it was difficult to leave it.

    I would caution anyone thinking about remodelling in 60-01. Since I did my remodel the HOA has tightened up the rules making it more difficult to do the same extent of work that I did. I did get permits from the City of Redmond so everything was inspected and legal which I think helped grease the wheels with the HOA. By the way, Redmond has a great permit system: very easy, not expensive, and very friendly inspectors.
    Otherwise, I think 60-01 is a great community. Gus’ Landing has a full bar and serves food and everyone is very friendly. You can’t beat the location. It’s smack in between Kirkland and Redmond and just a couple miles from Bellevue.

    I feel very lucky to have bought that condo when I did. Best investment I’ve ever made.

22. Bill,

    Indeed I am still very happy with my purchase…. I can’t figure out the darn kegorator yet… nor do I even know where to get kegs for it…

    I got some questions I’d love to ask about that and other things if you gotta moment…. my email is nicoleinseattle@msn.com. I’d love to hear from ya.

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