Just an observation. Faxed an offer yesterday. Most agents, including me, work mostly from home offices. But yesterday I went in to pick up a commission check, and faxed an offer from the office instead of from home. Even when we transmit a contract via email to the agent, we usually fax one to the office to be “legally delivered” to “the broker”. This is especially the case when we are expecting multiple offers on the property.
There was someone in front of me “in line” at the fax machine. He was griping about the machine feeding several pages at once. I went to get a staff person to fix that, and make sure mine wasn’t going to do the same thing. She said “Oh, you are faxing to the same agent as the guy in front of you“. (she called him by name.)
What are the odds of that? 13,000+ agents in King County, thousands of homes for sale. Two agents in one office faxing an offer on the same property at exactly the same time?
(BTW On Friday I closed on a property where the agent for the buyer was in my office. I was the agent for the seller. The property was in North Seattle. My office is in Kirkland. What are the odds of that?)
There is no “point” to this post really. When I showed the property on Sunday (lockbox went on at 1 p.m and I was there at 3 p.m.) there was a revolving door of agents. It was a madhouse. Agents with their buyers all over the place. According to the other agent with the offer who showed it on Monday, his experience was the same.
I don’t know how many offers they will get, but clearly there are lots and lots of buyers…all targeting the same homes, leaving many others in the “no one is interested” category. Can’t say much more, as the listing agent is still sorting through the offers. No conclusion at this point. Just a “what’s happening out there” observation.
If you can guess the property, please DO NOT put the address in the comments. If you do, I will have to delete it.
If there is a point to this post, it is that while “pendings” will only reflect one buyer and one seller on this property, there are obviously many buyers “in play” who can’t have it. So while stats may reflect “few” buyers (in escrow), that doesn’t tell the whole story of what is happening in the market.
There is another offer we were involved in this morning…property is not listed in the mls. There’s another example of how “the stats” are not picking up what is actually happening with regard to buyers making offers on property. Stats are becoming less reliable as an indication of supply and demand.
I know what you mean and have seen similar situations lately. Many buyers – particularly those coming from other parts of the country where the market seems bleak – expect to be in a position of power and are surprised to encounter competition or a seller that’s not desperate to sell.
Sara,
I was down in The South Bay in L.A. last week and seeing buyers and sellers with huge gaps. Not sure who is going to end up winning on this one. Wish there were a way to track the # of buyers making offers, vs. only the ones whose offers are accepted and end up in escrow.
Are you seeing this behavior at all price points or only the lower end?
The properties I’m watching that are selling quickly are either the deeply discounted and the perfect, udated homes. The homes that are “nice, but needs a little work” don’t seem to be moving. Perhaps that’s always been true.
Are you seeing this behavior at all price points or only the lower end?
The properties I’m watching that are selling quickly are either the deeply discounted and the perfect, udated homes. The homes that are “nice, but needs a little work” don’t seem to be moving. Perhaps that’s always been true.
Dr. Short,
My latest lower price range closing (same price range) where I represented the buyer vs. seller, had almost no offers. I think it was because there was no sign and a 2% buyer agent fee. I had the buyer client, there were only 2 offers, the other being a very low ball “investor” offer.
The last and most recent bid out to over asking I was involved in, the price was over $1M, but still a deep discount from historic value.
I think it’s more of a value issue than a price issue…but I’ll keep you posted. I’m feeling a dip in activity (feeling vs. seeing). Seems to me we may have had a spike from the $8,000 credit passing, that isn’t sustainable. I’m tracking this carefully for accuracy before posting stats about it.
If I’m finding any correlation it is in the kitchen. People don’t seem to want houses that need a new kitchen. Too much expense. Needing a new roof seems to be OK with people, but needing new baths and kitchens is not a big selling point these days.
I did a rough check of recent sales and pendings, and while the majority were in lower price points, the ones over the conforming loan limits seemed to be selling way over where they should be as to value. That’s very recent activity though. I’m waiting another week or so since we are almost at month end before doing any heavy time in stats. I am also going to compare mls closing data to King County records to see if I can find the % selling outside of the mls system. My perception is that # is way higher than it was in 2005 to 7/2007.
I got a very high number for homes that went pending since 4/1/09, but haven’t closed yet. This is not counting those that went pending prior to 4/1/09. The activity level was more than double, but I don’t want to post that until I can sort, if I can sort, the data.
I usually do stats every day, so that by the time I post them on Sunday I have double checked everything. Being away last week is causing me to be extra careful about posting what I am seeing in the moment.
Dr. Short,
My latest lower price range closing (same price range) where I represented the buyer vs. seller, had almost no offers. I think it was because there was no sign and a 2% buyer agent fee. I had the buyer client, there were only 2 offers, the other being a very low ball “investor” offer.
The last and most recent bid out to over asking I was involved in, the price was over $1M, but still a deep discount from historic value.
I think it’s more of a value issue than a price issue…but I’ll keep you posted. I’m feeling a dip in activity (feeling vs. seeing). Seems to me we may have had a spike from the $8,000 credit passing, that isn’t sustainable. I’m tracking this carefully for accuracy before posting stats about it.
If I’m finding any correlation it is in the kitchen. People don’t seem to want houses that need a new kitchen. Too much expense. Needing a new roof seems to be OK with people, but needing new baths and kitchens is not a big selling point these days.
I did a rough check of recent sales and pendings, and while the majority were in lower price points, the ones over the conforming loan limits seemed to be selling way over where they should be as to value. That’s very recent activity though. I’m waiting another week or so since we are almost at month end before doing any heavy time in stats. I am also going to compare mls closing data to King County records to see if I can find the % selling outside of the mls system. My perception is that # is way higher than it was in 2005 to 7/2007.
I got a very high number for homes that went pending since 4/1/09, but haven’t closed yet. This is not counting those that went pending prior to 4/1/09. The activity level was more than double, but I don’t want to post that until I can sort, if I can sort, the data.
I usually do stats every day, so that by the time I post them on Sunday I have double checked everything. Being away last week is causing me to be extra careful about posting what I am seeing in the moment.
Ardell-
We started house hunting back in ’06, took a hiatus and are now looking again. We are probably your ideal buyers – pre-approved, 20% downpayment saved plus a little in reserve… We just want to find the right house.
What I’m noticing is that fixers in any area don’t seem to be moving – unless they are heavily discounted. And there seem to be quite a few sellers who are under the illusion that their ‘fixer’ is going to fetch the same asking prices as the fixed up house down the street.
In contrast, there was a great house we looked at over the weekend near downtown Seattle. It was completely turn-key and while it wasn’t necessarily ‘under-priced’ for the area, it wasn’t priced ridiculously high either- probably a happy medium. Some aspects of the setup weren’t for us, so we didn’t bid. But it was Sharp! And we weren’t surprised to hear it got several offers and it went PI yesterday after being on the market under a week. So I think you are on the right track with the updated kitchen and bath observation. But the place also has to be priced right.
With prices in the more desirable areas in Seattle still hovering around the $500K mark and the economy still appearing grim, it’s hard for even prepared buyers like us to pull the trigger on that loan. It’s also a difficult thing to give up all of the down payment money you’ve been saving. And if it looks like you need to fork out additional money and time for repairs or updating, then the pennies really start screaming. Particularly when we are still able to rent a better place in a better area for much less $$ and keep saving.
If (as a buyer) I had a message for sellers, it would be that “Math is King.” I think many of us out there would really like to buy, but are being conservative and really looking at the financial bottom line versus making an emotional or speculative decision.
So if you have a fixer or a serious updater – expect low offers no matter what area you are in or how ‘unique’ you feel your home is. If you want a better price, then make that risk more attractive to buyers by doing some fixing and updating first.
Ardell-
We started house hunting back in ’06, took a hiatus and are now looking again. We are probably your ideal buyers – pre-approved, 20% downpayment saved plus a little in reserve… We just want to find the right house.
What I’m noticing is that fixers in any area don’t seem to be moving – unless they are heavily discounted. And there seem to be quite a few sellers who are under the illusion that their ‘fixer’ is going to fetch the same asking prices as the fixed up house down the street.
In contrast, there was a great house we looked at over the weekend near downtown Seattle. It was completely turn-key and while it wasn’t necessarily ‘under-priced’ for the area, it wasn’t priced ridiculously high either- probably a happy medium. Some aspects of the setup weren’t for us, so we didn’t bid. But it was Sharp! And we weren’t surprised to hear it got several offers and it went PI yesterday after being on the market under a week. So I think you are on the right track with the updated kitchen and bath observation. But the place also has to be priced right.
With prices in the more desirable areas in Seattle still hovering around the $500K mark and the economy still appearing grim, it’s hard for even prepared buyers like us to pull the trigger on that loan. It’s also a difficult thing to give up all of the down payment money you’ve been saving. And if it looks like you need to fork out additional money and time for repairs or updating, then the pennies really start screaming. Particularly when we are still able to rent a better place in a better area for much less $$ and keep saving.
If (as a buyer) I had a message for sellers, it would be that “Math is King.” I think many of us out there would really like to buy, but are being conservative and really looking at the financial bottom line versus making an emotional or speculative decision.
So if you have a fixer or a serious updater – expect low offers no matter what area you are in or how ‘unique’ you feel your home is. If you want a better price, then make that risk more attractive to buyers by doing some fixing and updating first.
Our office has seen a spike in activity for close-in perfect property. Buyers are unaccustomed to having to compete in this market so some are a little bent out of shape. But they’ll get over it and find another property!
Thanks Stillwatching. Yes, when someone is prepared to buy a house in this market, they really dont want to see a lot of extra money needed for improvements.
In fact, the $8,000 credit seems to be the max limit for needed repairs. If the $8,000 credit matches the amount needed, buyers seem to be OK with that, since it’s not really their money. But if the cost goes over $8,000, the decision to buy gets much more difficult.
Come to think of it a bit differently, depending on your state laws, if this were to happen under a sightly different circumstance, there could be a legal issue involved if one of the agents saw the other agent’s offer price especially if one happens to be the listing agent and the other a buyer’s agent.
*waves at Ardell*
Come to think of it a bit differently, depending on your state laws, if this were to happen under a sightly different circumstance, there could be a legal issue involved if one of the agents saw the other agent’s offer price especially if one happens to be the listing agent and the other a buyer’s agent.
*waves at Ardell*
*waving back at you*
The listing agent always sees all of the offers. Yes, that can be sticky at times. I can recall two times that has happened to me as the listing agent who also had an offer from a buyer. There may have been others.
It is not illegal for an owner to counter one buyer with a different buyer’s price. I believe I wrote a post about offer prices not being a secret. We generally do not reveal offer prices, but often that is because it is not in the best interest of our client for us to do so, not because it would be illegal if we did.
When Buyer Agency first came about, we envisioned buyer’s agents would have to be in different offices than listing agents. We envisioned agents would have to exclusively represent buyers OR sellers, so no one in an office would hear seller motivations or see all the offers coming in. That didn’t happen.
Realistically, though supervision of agents becomes an issue, agents working from home and emailing vs. faxing offers into an office where everyone can see them at the fax machine, makes more sense. Perhaps “Broker Only” licensure will provide better protections for consumers in that regard. I think we’re getting close to passing that here in WA.
*waving back at you*
The listing agent always sees all of the offers. Yes, that can be sticky at times. I can recall two times that has happened to me as the listing agent who also had an offer from a buyer. There may have been others.
It is not illegal for an owner to counter one buyer with a different buyer’s price. I believe I wrote a post about offer prices not being a secret. We generally do not reveal offer prices, but often that is because it is not in the best interest of our client for us to do so, not because it would be illegal if we did.
When Buyer Agency first came about, we envisioned buyer’s agents would have to be in different offices than listing agents. We envisioned agents would have to exclusively represent buyers OR sellers, so no one in an office would hear seller motivations or see all the offers coming in. That didn’t happen.
Realistically, though supervision of agents becomes an issue, agents working from home and emailing vs. faxing offers into an office where everyone can see them at the fax machine, makes more sense. Perhaps “Broker Only” licensure will provide better protections for consumers in that regard. I think we’re getting close to passing that here in WA.
FYI, while my client’s offer was more than 10% over the asking price, it was not one of the three highest offers received. Will be interesting to see what it closes at…but my guess is it won’t close for a long time. Maybe 3 months from now.
“When Buyer Agency first came about, we envisioned buyer’s agents would have to be in different offices than listing agents. We envisioned agents would have to exclusively represent buyers OR sellers, so no one in an office would hear seller motivations or see all the offers coming in. That didn’t happen.”
Interesting piece of real estate history there!
Having been out of real estate for nearly two years, when I read your article, I was thinking if one of the listing agents saw the other agent’s offer he could then go back and inform his client on the original agent’s offer and have his client to make the needed adjustments in his original offer without the other (original agent who sent the first fax) agent’s knowledge and that would put the original agent’s client at a severe disadvantage and a possible lawsuit depending on the laws in which the incident may have occurred. Similar to what you are saying in your second response where you came out and said that your client’s offer was not one of the highest offers received. If I am not mistaken, with you knowing the price of the other offers, you now have a fidicuary duty to inform your client of the other offers or is it different there in Washington?
PS: Ardell, where are the captions in all these videos I see everyone posting on these blogs! Do I need to get back into the blogging scene again and let everyone have a piece of my mind about not including captions?
*that’s was your hint as to who I am.*
“When Buyer Agency first came about, we envisioned buyer’s agents would have to be in different offices than listing agents. We envisioned agents would have to exclusively represent buyers OR sellers, so no one in an office would hear seller motivations or see all the offers coming in. That didn’t happen.”
Interesting piece of real estate history there!
Having been out of real estate for nearly two years, when I read your article, I was thinking if one of the listing agents saw the other agent’s offer he could then go back and inform his client on the original agent’s offer and have his client to make the needed adjustments in his original offer without the other (original agent who sent the first fax) agent’s knowledge and that would put the original agent’s client at a severe disadvantage and a possible lawsuit depending on the laws in which the incident may have occurred. Similar to what you are saying in your second response where you came out and said that your client’s offer was not one of the highest offers received. If I am not mistaken, with you knowing the price of the other offers, you now have a fidicuary duty to inform your client of the other offers or is it different there in Washington?
PS: Ardell, where are the captions in all these videos I see everyone posting on these blogs! Do I need to get back into the blogging scene again and let everyone have a piece of my mind about not including captions?
*that’s was your hint as to who I am.*
I wasn’t the listing agent on this one.
In WA, everyone is a buyer’s agent except the listing agent. In dual agency in any state, you don’t have fiduciary duties to both the buyer and the seller, as that is not possible. So you become more like a transaction broker without advices. So no, the listing agent would not be obligated or permitted to reveal the other offers to any of the buyers.
The few times I was the listing agent I gave the other buyer’s agents a lot of help, but it wasn’t helpful. I offered to let them present their own offer without my seeing it first, but they always came in lower than me, even though I hadn’t seen their offer. Most times the buyer doesn’t believe there are other offers.
Most recently when a buyer comes without an agent they often choose to represent themselves, keep the buyer agent fee, and dictate the contract price and terms. Any buyer who thinks the listing agent is “their” agent is incorrect. It’s not possible. The agent is already under contract to be the seller’s agent. At best, he can relay info…but the listing agent can’t represent the interests of the buyer over the interests of the seller.
By giving the buyer the fee vs. keeping it, it keeps all buyers on an even playing field as to net proceeds. Best method. Or the buyer can use the money to go buy a buyer’s agent. Their choice.
Got the hint…hope all is well with you, my friend. I worry about you from time to time. As to captions, I was talking with Dustin about doing an audio interview, but wanted to transcribe it as well. I have not forgotten the lessons you have taught me. In the latest video I posted, the best part was the little dance…hope you enjoyed it. The words were not all that important.
I wasn’t the listing agent on this one.
In WA, everyone is a buyer’s agent except the listing agent. In dual agency in any state, you don’t have fiduciary duties to both the buyer and the seller, as that is not possible. So you become more like a transaction broker without advices. So no, the listing agent would not be obligated or permitted to reveal the other offers to any of the buyers.
The few times I was the listing agent I gave the other buyer’s agents a lot of help, but it wasn’t helpful. I offered to let them present their own offer without my seeing it first, but they always came in lower than me, even though I hadn’t seen their offer. Most times the buyer doesn’t believe there are other offers.
Most recently when a buyer comes without an agent they often choose to represent themselves, keep the buyer agent fee, and dictate the contract price and terms. Any buyer who thinks the listing agent is “their” agent is incorrect. It’s not possible. The agent is already under contract to be the seller’s agent. At best, he can relay info…but the listing agent can’t represent the interests of the buyer over the interests of the seller.
By giving the buyer the fee vs. keeping it, it keeps all buyers on an even playing field as to net proceeds. Best method. Or the buyer can use the money to go buy a buyer’s agent. Their choice.
Got the hint…hope all is well with you, my friend. I worry about you from time to time. As to captions, I was talking with Dustin about doing an audio interview, but wanted to transcribe it as well. I have not forgotten the lessons you have taught me. In the latest video I posted, the best part was the little dance…hope you enjoyed it. The words were not all that important.