The past couple of days our escrow office has received several phone calls from frustrated loan officers handling both purchase and refinance transactions. The frustration has come about due to the county recording office closures and furlough dates. Contact your escrow or title office to confirm closure and furlough dates/times. In Snohomish County they have recently indicated that the entire excise, recording and Dept. of Licensing floor will be closed during lunch time, in addition to their shortened hours and closure dates.
Much of the frustration has been directed at loan officers and escrow. Both escrow AND title offices have for months been active both calling on offices and online via website and blogs sounding the alarm about the impact of county office closures for agents writing purchase and sale agreements.
Behold, I give you some relief to help assist your buyers and sellers through tomorrow’s (May 22nd, 2009) county closures for recording sales and also being that recording offices are closed on Memorial Day.
From your very own NWMLS Form 21 purchase and sale agreement it appears (I’m not giving advice nor am I an attorney giving advice) that the contract is NATURALLY giving you an extension whether or not you were aware of it.
Computation of Time
Paragraph “I
Thank you. That bit of clarity may help today.
Nobody in the whole process has to deal with more pressure than escrow! Thanks for the post.
Some escrow companies are saying they can close purchase transactions, even when the county offices are “furloughed” for a day…what is that all about?
Roger,
Technically a purchase is not closed until money is received AND title has been conveyed (recorded). It is possible that escrow let people know it is “closed”, but will wait over the weekend and record on Tuesday. That is one heck of a risk.
It is possible that the escrow is part of the title company and they are insuring the transaction.
Roger,
Technically a purchase is not closed until money is received AND title has been conveyed (recorded). It is possible that escrow let people know it is “closed”, but will wait over the weekend and record on Tuesday. That is one heck of a risk.
It is possible that the escrow is part of the title company and they are insuring the transaction.
I’m based just outside DC, and I have learned to ask title companies what the Fairfax County courthouse schedule is especially if there is a holiday.
Here is a question for everyone: When do buyers and sellers exchange keys? The custom in Virginia is at the settlement table, although I know some places wait until recordation has taken place.
-doug
I’m based just outside DC, and I have learned to ask title companies what the Fairfax County courthouse schedule is especially if there is a holiday.
Here is a question for everyone: When do buyers and sellers exchange keys? The custom in Virginia is at the settlement table, although I know some places wait until recordation has taken place.
-doug
Doug,
Ardell could give you more clarity than I about the core differences between traditions of closing transactions from east coast to west coast. Here in the west coast states we are escrow states and closing occurs when recording takes place. Parties sign at different times during the day and sometimes at different locations out of necessity (work-life issues).
Keys distribution is the domain of the agents and usually they handle it.
Doug,
Ardell could give you more clarity than I about the core differences between traditions of closing transactions from east coast to west coast. Here in the west coast states we are escrow states and closing occurs when recording takes place. Parties sign at different times during the day and sometimes at different locations out of necessity (work-life issues).
Keys distribution is the domain of the agents and usually they handle it.
Tim, didn’t you or Lynlee write about this at RCG a while back (when the furloughs were announced)? I believe that Snohomish County joined in later…as if closing before a (sunny) three day weekend wasn’t enough fun all ready! 😉
Tim #5,
I did at least one “East Coast close” with you, when the lender was Pentagon Federal Credit Union. I remember Lynlee saying “why are they referring to ‘the settlement’?”
The closing issues are more about the lending practices, vs East Coast – West Coast. Table funding – docs needing to be signed on a given day (I believe the day they are dated) at settlement vs within a timeframe (before closing). I’m pretty sure the recent closing we did through the House Key Program had that issue regarding the day the papers had to be signed.
To answer Doug’s question #4, keys are transferred on the date of possession, which can be before or after it is recorded. Most commonly the buyer gets the keys ASAP when we “have recording numbers”. “A Califorinia Close” as I liked to call, it was often “closing plus 3 days) for possession. I believe many areas of Tennesse at one time had possession at 30 days after closing as the norm. Sellers didn’t even start thinking about moving out until they had their money in their hand 🙂
At a “settlement” the buyers usually meet the sellers in person and exchange keys, garage door openers, alarm system codes, etc… That can be a “wet” settlement or a “dry” settlement, depending on where the mortgage money is at the time.
A “closing” in an escrow state is actually a phone call from the closing agent saying “we have recording numbers”. Very impersonal, with the buyers often never meeting the sellers of the home.
The most common way to “deliver keys” is for the owner or agent for the owner to put all of the keys and garage door openers inside the home just prior to closing, with appliance warranty papers, etc. Then the agent for the buyer gets the key from the lockbox before the agent for the seller removes the lockbox, and lets the buyers into the house where they get everything else.
Table funding is the main difference. Most escrow states don’t know that “table” means “the settlement table” where the buyer and seller are sitting at a table, along with their respective agents and the closing agent.
Escrow states favor the seller and pose substantial disadvantage to the buyer in many cases.
At a settlement table, a buyer can refuse to sign the papers until walk-through issues are resolved and the seller can refuse to hand over the keys. More leverage. In Escrow states the buyer is usually “all signed up” in advance of the seller vacating the house, so a walk through after it is empty is often after they have already signed everything. A settlement table closing offers more opportunity to resolve walk-through issues, as everyone is present and the buyer views the property empty on the way to the settlement table.
Also in a settlement state, the buyer has a month or more notice regarding when to take off from work to go to sign their papers, as it is ON the closing date in the contract. In an escrow state the buyer has to sign before that given date and after the docs arrive…so they are often given very little advance notice.
My perspective: From the seller’s side – escrow closings are better. From the buyer’s side = settlement closings are better.
Tim #5,
I did at least one “East Coast close” with you, when the lender was Pentagon Federal Credit Union. I remember Lynlee saying “why are they referring to ‘the settlement’?”
The closing issues are more about the lending practices, vs East Coast – West Coast. Table funding – docs needing to be signed on a given day (I believe the day they are dated) at settlement vs within a timeframe (before closing). I’m pretty sure the recent closing we did through the House Key Program had that issue regarding the day the papers had to be signed.
To answer Doug’s question #4, keys are transferred on the date of possession, which can be before or after it is recorded. Most commonly the buyer gets the keys ASAP when we “have recording numbers”. “A Califorinia Close” as I liked to call, it was often “closing plus 3 days) for possession. I believe many areas of Tennesse at one time had possession at 30 days after closing as the norm. Sellers didn’t even start thinking about moving out until they had their money in their hand 🙂
At a “settlement” the buyers usually meet the sellers in person and exchange keys, garage door openers, alarm system codes, etc… That can be a “wet” settlement or a “dry” settlement, depending on where the mortgage money is at the time.
A “closing” in an escrow state is actually a phone call from the closing agent saying “we have recording numbers”. Very impersonal, with the buyers often never meeting the sellers of the home.
The most common way to “deliver keys” is for the owner or agent for the owner to put all of the keys and garage door openers inside the home just prior to closing, with appliance warranty papers, etc. Then the agent for the buyer gets the key from the lockbox before the agent for the seller removes the lockbox, and lets the buyers into the house where they get everything else.
Table funding is the main difference. Most escrow states don’t know that “table” means “the settlement table” where the buyer and seller are sitting at a table, along with their respective agents and the closing agent.
Escrow states favor the seller and pose substantial disadvantage to the buyer in many cases.
At a settlement table, a buyer can refuse to sign the papers until walk-through issues are resolved and the seller can refuse to hand over the keys. More leverage. In Escrow states the buyer is usually “all signed up” in advance of the seller vacating the house, so a walk through after it is empty is often after they have already signed everything. A settlement table closing offers more opportunity to resolve walk-through issues, as everyone is present and the buyer views the property empty on the way to the settlement table.
Also in a settlement state, the buyer has a month or more notice regarding when to take off from work to go to sign their papers, as it is ON the closing date in the contract. In an escrow state the buyer has to sign before that given date and after the docs arrive…so they are often given very little advance notice.
My perspective: From the seller’s side – escrow closings are better. From the buyer’s side = settlement closings are better.
Rhonda,
Last week I stood in line at the county with 6 files to process for mobile home sales. When I took my wait number at the excise desk the clerk looked at me with grinning consternation and said, “Tim, are you serious?” I said, ‘yep, sure am.’ She had a stack to do and all the title runner files were also sitting there. I felt so bad! There were only two gals working excise for the entire county.
Ardell,
Cool. Thanks for the breakdown. Did Kim sock you in the arm like I asked him to when he stopped by our office last week? 🙂
I think table funding and everyone at the signing has some good things about it but I can also see where it could be awkward. Does everybody show up including agents and LO’s?
Tim,
No…Kim gave me a big hug and said it was from you. It wasn’t?
Most times everyone showed up. Like I said, it was better for the buyer and not the seller. Often the seller was worn out from packing and moving out and had all their stuff outside in a big truck.
It was always good for the buyer to walk through the empty house, go to sign their papers, and get their keys and go “home”. The really felt like they knew what they were buying and it was a lot more exciting.
Not awkward; just different. In fact it keeps everyone much more honest and less adversarial through the whole process. Knowing the buyer’s going to look you in the eye and hand you a big bunch of money at the end…keeps things “real” all the way through.
If there was a walk-through problem, I usually put the buyers in a different room until we worked through the problem, and then put them together for the “closing”.
Agents, yes; LOs, no. Once in a while an agent would show up at the end just to pick up their check. But they looked pretty lame when they did that.
November closings are going to be torture… picture this: FTHBs trying to close before December 1 so they can qualify for the FTHB Tax Credit…and….King County’s recorders office is closed Nov 11, 25, 26 and 27. Only 17 recording days in what’s going to be a very busy month. Snohomish County’s recorders office is only closing early on Wednesday, Nov 25 and closed the regular November holidays (Veterans and Thanksgiving).