This past week, Top Producer quietly rolled out a home valuation tool, called HomeInsight, for a few markets in California and Washington*. I was not part of developing the tool, but I like it enough to pass along the link to Rain City Guide readers before the local media picks it up.
What differentiates this product from others is that it not only includes sold data, but also real-time listing data. The result is a page of information for each home that includes:
- an interactive map that gives details on ten similar nearby homes (5 that are for sale and 5 that have sold) and
- dynamic charts that give the average/high/low listing price, the average/high/low selling time and the average difference between asking and selling price for the neighborhood of interest.
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However, as with all things that sound too good to be true, there is a catch. In order to pull live listing information, the servers pulling this data have to go through an agent’s connection with their local MLS. (Don’t ask me to explain why, and definitely don’t ask Robbie, but anyone reading RCG for a while knows that the MLS’ have rules!) The result is it takes 5 to 15 minutes for the request to go to the local Realtor’s Top Producer account and then for the Realtor to initiate a report that pulls the data off the MLS servers (yes, a server call to the local MLS is necessary each and every time a request for a snapshot is made). Consequently, the only way to get your snapshop is from a link sent via email about 10 minutes after you complete the form.
So, how do you get a market snapshot for your home? Simply go to HomeInsight and fill in the required fields. (Remember it is only available in a few places right now!*)
If you don’t want to fill in the form, live in another part of the country, or feel guilty about sending people like Jim Reppond a “false” lead, then you can also check out this dummy snapshot filled with made up data.
And as much as I hate disclaimers, it is important to note that these are my opinions and my currently employer is not responsible for what I write on Rain City Guide.
* This tool is currently only available in parts of California (Hemet, Huntington Beach, Laguna Niguel, Long Beach, Los Angeles, Mission Viejo and Norwalk) and Washington (Bellevue/Eastside, Bremerton, Everett, Federal Way, Greater Seattle, Puyallup and Tacoma)
So, in the end, it’s just a fancy front end for a lead-generator? When will these companies get it? This is Web 2.0! Most people do not want to fill out forms with personal information just to get a call back from a salesperson. I know I won’t.
Instead of using what appears to be a well-designed AVM to sell “leads” to agents, too bad Top Producer didn’t opt for generating income by selling “featured home” spots to listing agents/offices. At least that would feel a little less “slimy” than selling leads.
What exactly does “This is Web 2.0” mean? Sometimes I think it’s about technology and at other times, as in Cheryl’s comment it sounds like a new mentality.
Ouch Cheryl!
You just set my blogging efforts at Move back by a year or so… See if they let me release a “cool” new project into the blogoshere any time soon! LOL!
More seriously, my understanding (and I’m sure there are people at Top Producer and/or NWMLS who know a hell of a lot more than me on this topic) is that our hands are tied. If we want to display both live listing data and live sold data, then we’d either have to be a broker (not an option) or go through a broker. We can’t just throw it all up on a map and puts ads on the site as you suggest.
Probably more interesting is the realization that ads and lead generation sites are really trying to accomplish the same thing (at least in this context). They are trying to convince the user that they’ve reached some type of imaginary wall… If the user wants more information, then they will have to give up their anonymity and make contact with a professional. We’re well aware that the wall in this case appears pretty darn quickly (i.e. the front page), but the hope is that people find the “gold” behind the wall useful nonetheless.
Ouch Cheryl!
You just set my blogging efforts at Move back by a year or so… See if they let me release a “cool” new project into the blogoshere any time soon! LOL!
More seriously, my understanding (and I’m sure there are people at Top Producer and/or NWMLS who know a hell of a lot more than me on this topic) is that our hands are tied. If we want to display both live listing data and live sold data, then we’d either have to be a broker (not an option) or go through a broker. We can’t just throw it all up on a map and puts ads on the site as you suggest.
Probably more interesting is the realization that ads and lead generation sites are really trying to accomplish the same thing (at least in this context). They are trying to convince the user that they’ve reached some type of imaginary wall… If the user wants more information, then they will have to give up their anonymity and make contact with a professional. We’re well aware that the wall in this case appears pretty darn quickly (i.e. the front page), but the hope is that people find the “gold” behind the wall useful nonetheless.
Ardell,
Like all good technologies concepts, Web2.0 means what you want it to…
Are you a tech company looking for funding from a VC firm? Then you had definitely mention the fact that you are a web2.0 company if you plan to get funding! 😉
Web2.0 is definitely not a technology. Elements of web2.0 have been around since the first businesses started popping up on the internet. Things like social networking, contextual ads, user-generated content are all very web2.0. By being a blogger, Ardell, you are definitely taking part in Web2.0!!!
The business ideas behind Web2.0 are actually quite powerful (if not a little insidious). The idea is that you can get to know your users so well that you can predict (or better “plant”) the next product that they are going to buy. Greg Linden gives an interesting mental picture of how Amazon might approach Web2.0:
Here’s the wikipedia version which does a much better job describing Web2.0. (and yes, wikipedia is definitely a Web2.0 website!)
Ardell,
Like all good technologies concepts, Web2.0 means what you want it to…
Are you a tech company looking for funding from a VC firm? Then you had definitely mention the fact that you are a web2.0 company if you plan to get funding! 😉
Web2.0 is definitely not a technology. Elements of web2.0 have been around since the first businesses started popping up on the internet. Things like social networking, contextual ads, user-generated content are all very web2.0. By being a blogger, Ardell, you are definitely taking part in Web2.0!!!
The business ideas behind Web2.0 are actually quite powerful (if not a little insidious). The idea is that you can get to know your users so well that you can predict (or better “plant”) the next product that they are going to buy. Greg Linden gives an interesting mental picture of how Amazon might approach Web2.0:
Here’s the wikipedia version which does a much better job describing Web2.0. (and yes, wikipedia is definitely a Web2.0 website!)
Moreover, why not just pull the whole feed every night and run against that in real time. Results won’t be up-to-the-minute, since the MLS is a moving target, but a competitive analysis is much more informative than just comparisons against past sold listings. All the usual caveats about the blindness of software to potentially decisive factors apply (views versus no views, standing versus burned to cinders, etc.), but the basic idea — minus the delay and the surrender of contact info — is better than Zillow.com.
Actually, this is a long-term business model for Zillow. At the national site, you can buy flags on your listings, as with Realtor.com. At individual Realtor’s sites, as an IDX system, you can overbrand all the listings as your own.
When I said Web 2.0, I was just using it in a very, very general sense of people being accustomed to researching information freely and readily, with no strings attached. It probably was the wrong term to use.
When I’m researching something, and I come across a site asking for my personal information so that someone can call me back, I quickly move on. I always figured other people felt the same way. Maybe I’m wrong?
And Dustin, HomeInsight looks very well designed. I just don’t like the lead-generation thing.
When I said Web 2.0, I was just using it in a very, very general sense of people being accustomed to researching information freely and readily, with no strings attached. It probably was the wrong term to use.
When I’m researching something, and I come across a site asking for my personal information so that someone can call me back, I quickly move on. I always figured other people felt the same way. Maybe I’m wrong?
And Dustin, HomeInsight looks very well designed. I just don’t like the lead-generation thing.
Although, I think data visualization is the next big thing, it’s too bad it’s attached to a lead generation tool. Especially since Trulia has data visualization features, and Zillow has charts too and soon an API for getting them! The real challenge for online lead generators is keeping the “gold” behind wall more compelling than the “platinum” or “silver” behind Zillow’s & Trulia’s windows. It may not be gold, but it’s still pretty valuable and at least I can look at it for free! Don’t under estimate the value to consumers of window shopping.
On an unrelated note, I saw an ad for Jim in my Alaska Airlines in flight magazine, on my trip back from Inman SF connect. I wonder what his marketing budget is?
Cheryl,
Yes, I do quickly move on when someone wants me to fill out a form to get to the meat of the site where I can get some info.
So I guess I AM Web 2.0!!
Thanks for the explanation. Would love to hear from others regarding what THEY mean when they say “Web 2.0” I thought it was another Microsoft product 🙂
Is it like saying “Generation X”? Are they synonymous terms, as in all “Web 2.0” people are also “Generation X” people??
Ardell, because Web 2.0 is so ill-defined, Jason Kottke did an analysis of a survey to find the following telling keywords:
web – 348
ajax – 107
applications – 93
new – 78
user – 71
apps – 44
(plus some more) – http://www.kottke.org/06/08/web-20-a-definition-of-sorts
Ajax is a fancy way of saying that when you click on something on a webpage, it updates the page instead of taking you to a new page – like when you zoom in on Google Maps it loads a new map instead of a new page.
Ardell, because Web 2.0 is so ill-defined, Jason Kottke did an analysis of a survey to find the following telling keywords:
web – 348
ajax – 107
applications – 93
new – 78
user – 71
apps – 44
(plus some more) – http://www.kottke.org/06/08/web-20-a-definition-of-sorts
Ajax is a fancy way of saying that when you click on something on a webpage, it updates the page instead of taking you to a new page – like when you zoom in on Google Maps it loads a new map instead of a new page.
I forgot my favorite keywords that he found: overhyped and overused.
Yet another company that tries to repackage freely available information. It’ll never be as accurate as pulling up to the minute MLS data and taking your listing client on a tour of competing homes, so why even bother. What purpose does it serve except to tell peple that here’s some inaccurate and uselless info, but it looks cool, and you may want to talk to a realtor anyway.
Nick,
I’m not seeing your point… (1) The data is not freely available. (2) It is up-to-the-minute… that’s the whole point. (3) People like to research stuff before they go on a home tour. (4) It’s not inaccurate. (5) It’s definitely not useless. (6) There’s nothing wrong with looking cool. (7) Despite your tone, there’s nothing wrong in talking with a professional.
By all means, try again…
Nick,
I’m not seeing your point… (1) The data is not freely available. (2) It is up-to-the-minute… that’s the whole point. (3) People like to research stuff before they go on a home tour. (4) It’s not inaccurate. (5) It’s definitely not useless. (6) There’s nothing wrong with looking cool. (7) Despite your tone, there’s nothing wrong in talking with a professional.
By all means, try again…
Web 2.0 means so many different things to many different people. I think the main theme of it is “interactivity & connectivity”. It’s like comparing the radio vs a videophone, it’s 2 way communication vs somebody broadcasting.
Namely…
Better connectivity between readers & writers via blogs and links.
Better interactivity between clients & servers via AJAX and flash.
Better connectivity via broadband and WiFi technologies.
I’m wondering what Web 3.0 will be like?
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Ardell
My favorite definition of “web 2.0” is from blogger, Richard McManus whose blog is called “read/write web”. It’s a simple definition: Web 1.0 was the web you could read. Web 2.0 is the web you can both read and *write* – IMO, it’s the fact that anyone can easily create content that makes Web2 so magical.
Dustin
I don’t see how ads compell users to give up their anonimity? IMO, the beauty of advertising vs the sales calls that come from lead gen. is that the consumer can evaluate the product on their own time and without pressure. With ads, the consumer decides when to engage the services of the agent/ company – not the other way around.
Cheryl
I’m also increasingly suspicious of sites that ask for my contact details. What I find most frustrating is that unlike the “truth in advertising” concept, where ads are clearly marked as such or consistently displayed apart from content, there seems to be no similar ethic in lead generation. It makes no sense either – if there were this ethic, lead quality would be higher, lead buyers (agents) would be happier and so would the leads (consumers). Mostly though, I’m shocked at how prevalent this bait-and-switch tactic is in Real Estate where people are making the biggest investment of their lives.
Disclosure: I proudly work for Zillow.com, but these are my thoughts posted on my time.
Ardell
My favorite definition of “web 2.0” is from blogger, Richard McManus whose blog is called “read/write web”. It’s a simple definition: Web 1.0 was the web you could read. Web 2.0 is the web you can both read and *write* – IMO, it’s the fact that anyone can easily create content that makes Web2 so magical.
Dustin
I don’t see how ads compell users to give up their anonimity? IMO, the beauty of advertising vs the sales calls that come from lead gen. is that the consumer can evaluate the product on their own time and without pressure. With ads, the consumer decides when to engage the services of the agent/ company – not the other way around.
Cheryl
I’m also increasingly suspicious of sites that ask for my contact details. What I find most frustrating is that unlike the “truth in advertising” concept, where ads are clearly marked as such or consistently displayed apart from content, there seems to be no similar ethic in lead generation. It makes no sense either – if there were this ethic, lead quality would be higher, lead buyers (agents) would be happier and so would the leads (consumers). Mostly though, I’m shocked at how prevalent this bait-and-switch tactic is in Real Estate where people are making the biggest investment of their lives.
Disclosure: I proudly work for Zillow.com, but these are my thoughts posted on my time.
David G.
Thank you SO MUCH!! I think I’ve GOT IT!
When IC asked me to test their blog product while it was in BETA (which is how I started blogging and where Dustin “found” me), they KNEW my technology capabilities and lack thereof. I have known the guys since 1998 and pretty much learned everything I know about the internet from them.
I didn’t even know how to send an email before I “met” them online. God that’s embarassing in hindsight, considering I have over 2,500 in my sent file (and I delete the ones I don’t need regularly). I have 1,225 in my Inbox all of which I just can’t live without :-), meaning I’ve deleted the trash or not currently relevant. That’s not counting the archives 🙂
So they came to me KNOWING that I couldn’t write in html, so for me to be able to DO IT, and I think I clearly HAVE done it…would certify their blog product as Web 2.0.
They knew if I could “get it”, anyone could get it…well, not my Mom. She’s just getting used to the ATM card 🙂
That you can “write” and update and post photos and market “stuff” and do it all, without knowing how to write in code language…IS Web 2.0!!!!
By George, I think I’ve Got It!
David G.
Thank you SO MUCH!! I think I’ve GOT IT!
When IC asked me to test their blog product while it was in BETA (which is how I started blogging and where Dustin “found” me), they KNEW my technology capabilities and lack thereof. I have known the guys since 1998 and pretty much learned everything I know about the internet from them.
I didn’t even know how to send an email before I “met” them online. God that’s embarassing in hindsight, considering I have over 2,500 in my sent file (and I delete the ones I don’t need regularly). I have 1,225 in my Inbox all of which I just can’t live without :-), meaning I’ve deleted the trash or not currently relevant. That’s not counting the archives 🙂
So they came to me KNOWING that I couldn’t write in html, so for me to be able to DO IT, and I think I clearly HAVE done it…would certify their blog product as Web 2.0.
They knew if I could “get it”, anyone could get it…well, not my Mom. She’s just getting used to the ATM card 🙂
That you can “write” and update and post photos and market “stuff” and do it all, without knowing how to write in code language…IS Web 2.0!!!!
By George, I think I’ve Got It!
David,
I think we’re talking about the same concept but simply describing it differently. I’m saying that the purpose of an ad (again, only in this context) is it to compel a user to give up their anonymity and make contact with an agent. I think you’re saying the same thing, but saying that the ad is more friend than a registration system because it gives more power to the user. I follow that logic completely and think the site would definitely make for a more compelling consumer experience if the user didn’t have to register first. At the same time, I recognize that the MLS organizations see things differently and can understand why it was necessary to “play by the rules” in order to release the product.
David,
I think we’re talking about the same concept but simply describing it differently. I’m saying that the purpose of an ad (again, only in this context) is it to compel a user to give up their anonymity and make contact with an agent. I think you’re saying the same thing, but saying that the ad is more friend than a registration system because it gives more power to the user. I follow that logic completely and think the site would definitely make for a more compelling consumer experience if the user didn’t have to register first. At the same time, I recognize that the MLS organizations see things differently and can understand why it was necessary to “play by the rules” in order to release the product.
Thought 1: OK, guys, so I need a different term to describe the thought I was after: What do we call that environment when the end user, the consumer, is “empowered”: they have a good idea what’s what, who’s who, and how things work?
Thought 2: If a company wanted to get into the lead-generation business, I personally think the original “HomeGain model” is preferable to the “HouseValues model”.
In the HomeGain model, a prospective buyer or seller posts a “request for proposals”. Agents in the area respond with their proposals, the prospective clients corresponds and meets with the agent(s), chooses one, and that agent pays a referal fee to HomeGain on close.
In the HouseValues model, a prospective buyer or seller fills out the contact form, and the one agent who has purchased that particular zip code, or neighborhood, receives the lead. Period. And the agent pays whether or not the lead ends in a sale.
In my humble personal opinion, the Home Gain model is more transparent to the consumer, and gives the consumer more control.
And Dustin,
I get what you’re saying. The same type of MLS function that agents set up to generate automatic emails to clients is generating the data for your reports. So it needs to be tied to an MLS member number.
One obvious work-around: Some one at HomeInsight becomes an MLS member, and that member number is used to generate all reports. And the report would just show the HomeInsight logo instead of an individual agent. But that kind of blows the income stream
Is Top Producer going to market it this to their own user base? Or is it going to be offered to any and all agents separate from TP?
Well not all that impressed – I am an apprasier and I ran it against my home – nice having the up to market and listing info, but since the #1 listing didn’t have the right photo, there is no actual estimate made and the questions/options aren’t sufficiant to generate reasonable adjustments – I would have to say that this is not a direct competitor to Zillow, which does a better job for the consumer. Now bad as a lead generator, but what happens when more than one broker/firm contracts to use it
As for presentation, the base map on the intial respone was different than the market snap shot (showed a road that doesn’t exist), DOM outliers weren’t culled resulting in too large of a scale on the graph- too hard to read – the data points weren’t live so you couldn’t expand on anything. The popup on the comps was good – too bad it was rebranded (or should i say debranded) and the listing on my street had a wrong photo
Cheryl-
HomeGain also hs a program that they have branded BuyerLink. It works more like the HouseValues program, but for people looking to buy real estate. You choose a state on the map, then a metro region, then a city (loosely) and voilà! – You appear at the agent’s Home Search Registration Form, behind which (if you’re lucky) is an IDX search. Instead of having to kick back a percent of the commission, agents pay a ‘per visit’ fee to HomeGain or a reseller. The ‘per visit’ costs can be any where from 50 cents to $2.50 (in my experience) depending on the demand.
I have worked with (too) many agents that have used the BuyerLink program and you’d be surprised by the results. I know you (David and others) are turned off by the idea of revealing your identity to get to the info behind the door, but up to 18% of visitors to these registration forms via BuyerLink are actually providing (mostly) honest personal info. I know… it’s hard to believe.
I think that the success (18%) comes from having the visitor jump through 4-5 hoops before getting to the single option of filling out Joe Realtor’s registration form. This is in stark contrast to the results of someone finding you through the search engines directly (try less than 2% success).
No, I don’t work for HG, nor do I resell BL; I just thought that you might find it interesting that 18 out of 100 will actually fill out the form when we all feel it to be so repulsive.
Cheryl-
HomeGain also hs a program that they have branded BuyerLink. It works more like the HouseValues program, but for people looking to buy real estate. You choose a state on the map, then a metro region, then a city (loosely) and voilà! – You appear at the agent’s Home Search Registration Form, behind which (if you’re lucky) is an IDX search. Instead of having to kick back a percent of the commission, agents pay a ‘per visit’ fee to HomeGain or a reseller. The ‘per visit’ costs can be any where from 50 cents to $2.50 (in my experience) depending on the demand.
I have worked with (too) many agents that have used the BuyerLink program and you’d be surprised by the results. I know you (David and others) are turned off by the idea of revealing your identity to get to the info behind the door, but up to 18% of visitors to these registration forms via BuyerLink are actually providing (mostly) honest personal info. I know… it’s hard to believe.
I think that the success (18%) comes from having the visitor jump through 4-5 hoops before getting to the single option of filling out Joe Realtor’s registration form. This is in stark contrast to the results of someone finding you through the search engines directly (try less than 2% success).
No, I don’t work for HG, nor do I resell BL; I just thought that you might find it interesting that 18 out of 100 will actually fill out the form when we all feel it to be so repulsive.
And one more thought … we like to think our clients are working with us because they feel we will do the best job for them. Somehow the notion that someone is working with me because I bought his name through a lead service just doesn’t sit right with me. I know, someone will say its no different than advertising. And maybe they’re right. We’re talking my personal opinion here. 🙂
Web2.0 does not mean there are no forms to fill out.
Snippet from wikipedia.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web2.0
Web 2.0″ trendily hints at an improved form of the World Wide Web, and the term has appeared in occasional use for several years. The more explicit synonym “Participatory Web”, emphasizing tools and platforms that enable the user to tag, blog, comment, modify, augment, select from, rank, and generally talk back to the contributions of other users and the general world community has increasingly seen use as an alternative phrase. Some commentators regard reputation-based public wikis, like Wikipedia, as pioneering examples of Web 2.0/Participatory Web technology.
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