Negotiating Fees with the Buyer Client

I was quite encouraged by a phone call I received yesterday from an agent wanting to discuss how to approach fee negotiations with a buyer. Not how to object to the subject. Not how to respond if a buyer raises the topic. But how to introduce the concept of negotiating the fee to a buyer, without the buyer being the one to first broach the subject.

Clearly, the Buyer Agent truly treating the buyer as a client, is the key to the future of our industry. As long as agents continue to think that the seller is paying their commission, when they are representing a buyer, they will continue to treat the buyer as a second class citizen in the real estate transaction. I am very hopeful that people will start to see that there are two sides to this $coin$ and that the buyer clearly pays their fair share, if not more, for their representation.

Given the huge increases lately in Buyer Agent offerings from sellers, it is obvious that 98% of the industry still does not “get it”, nor do they want to “get it”.

Looking for guesses on that album cover. Prize to be determined by location of the winner who guesses the band and the One Hit Wonder on that album.

Free Bloginar in L.A. for 200 Agents!

Russ Cofano and I are giving our 2nd Bloginar for agents next week on how to use blogs to effectively generate leads. Interestingly, the sponsor of the event, Coldwell Banker, decided to open up our seminar to all southern california real estate agents and not just Coldwell Banker agents (WOW!)… Not only that, but they decided to make the even free (Double WOW!).

The catch is that the facility can only hold 200 people and they’ve decided to offer seats on a first-come, first-serve basis! The only place to register is on this fancy flash page they created for the event! (A little bird has told me that there are already over 50 people 70 people 80 people 100 people registered for the event, and the organizers are expecting a full house!)

The event is scheduled to start promptly at 9:30am and last until 12:30 on July 19 at the Skirball Cultural Center in Brentwood.

Last time, we ended up rushing things (and skipping one of two planned breaks) because we really have four hours worth of material we’re trying to condense into three hours. I’ve attempted to filter things a little more this time, but with the inevitable (and valuable) questions that real estate blogging encourages from the audience, I’m sure we’ll be rushing to cover everything in the end this time as well!

Some of the reviews we had from our first bloginar were very encouraging…

Dale Crockatt:

Dustin and Russ, your first bloginar class was awesome! I have not been so excited about a new idea in years. We have been searching for an idea for the fourth generation of our website www.MountHoodHomes.com and I am convinced this is it! I was surprised you were not selling something at the end of the “show

Inman’s Innovation Awards!

Congrats goes out to all the contributors on Rain City Guide! We were nominated as a finalist for the “Most Innovative Blog Award” by Inman News. In my world, contributors are not only the people with their photo up on the sidepanel, but also those of you who return to give your comments on a regular basis. This site thrives off of your continued involvement!

The winners in each category will be announced in SF at the Inman Connect Conference. I’m definitely going to be there (I’m speaking on a panel on lead conversion)… Additionally, I would really enjoy organizing a meet-up of bloggers one evening. If you’re interested in joining us, then leave a comment below and I’ll send details as things get closer!

[photopress:Luther_engineering.jpg,thumb,alignright]In the meantime, I’m not proud to say that I didn’t know many of the non-blog nominations so I spent some time this evening on google researching the other companies nominated. Here are some notes (or at least links) I took while scanning the other nominees.

Most Innovative Brokerage

I wish Inman provided some more context so that I could know why they picked these particular real estate brokers. If anyone can let me know what sets these firms apart, please share!

Most Innovative Web Service

[photopress:Luther_engineering_2.jpg,thumb,alignright]Most Innovative New Business Model

Most Innovative Real Estate Blog

Most Innovative Real Estate Data Site

[photopress:Luther_engineering_3.jpg,thumb,alignright]Most Innovative Technology

Most Innovative Mortgage Company or Service

Most Innovative Media Site

Most Innovative Rental/ New Home Online Service

Addicted to Google’s Mobile Maps

[photopress:phone.png,thumb,alignright]I was just reading a post from Jim Kimmons where he gives advice for Realtors on how to better use their handheld Treo’s and it reminded me that I really should put a plug in for Google’s mobile mapping program because I’ve simply become addicted to it and many others could probably benefit from this tool.

The first thing to realize is that the mapping program is separate from your cell phone’s browser. In other words, you’re going to have to download a program to your mobile cell phone. Here is the url you’ll have to type into your cell phone’s browser to download the program: http://www.google.com/gmm/.

Obviously, this program won’t work with all phones, but Google is kind enough to give a list of supported phones. Note that they do support Blackberry phones (which is what I use!).

Why am I addicted?

The interface is simple and and clean. The main options I use are “Move to Location” and “Find Business”. The “Move to Location” option is used to locate me in a general area, while the “Find Business” option gets me to specific places.

Being in a new area, this one-two combo has been extremely powerful. For example, today I used the program to find (and get directions to) a local post office, a washington mutual branch and a coffee shop, all while out of the office and miles away from my desktop computer. Very cool indeed.

As with many google programs, the tool gets even more powerful if you learn some of the “tricks”. My most common one is to use the “3” and “1” buttons to scroll between turn movement descriptions while navigating directions. I also like that “i” zooms in while “o” zooms out. (Note that I’m using a Blackberry and other operating systems will surely use different buttons!)

If you happen to be in my situation where you have a powerful phone (and no powerful in-car navigation system), definitely consider checking out this program. It has done away with my need for hard-copy maps!

Paying for the Privilege of Marginalization

The real estate industry is a funny place…

There is an obvious tension between the industry players who win through cooperation and the individual agents who win by differentiation. It kind of reminds me of the Tragedy of the Commons in that the actions that individual agents are taking in their best interest are slowly breaking apart the well oiled machine that is today’s real estate industry.

In particular, I’m thinking of all the agent money that is currently being poured into advertisements for companies that are building tools designed to marginalize the role of real estate agents. Joel Burslem picked up on one example when he mentioned that Topix (jointly owned and run by the newspaper publishers: Gannett, Knight Ridder and Tribune) is getting into the FSBO market. If this is not a clear enough signal of the newspaper’s intent, the fact that the Tribune recently purchased forsalebyowner.com should make it clear that the newspapers are now the competition…

While it may be in best interest of individual real estate agents to put ads in local papers, these ads are funding companies who are clearly attempting to completely disrupt their industry. (Don’t even get me started on the irony that a bunch of real estate professionals in Seattle are giving content to the PI that will likely be plastered in FSBO ads before long!).

But it is not only newspapers where agents are paying for the privilege of creating their own demise. Every time an agent buys an ad on Google, they are helping to fund a tool that is clearly meant to marginalize them.

I’ve been holding my tongue on this issue for quite a while because I’m sure a good argument could be made that I’m too biased in that I’m viewing the topic through my employer’s tinted glasses. Nonetheless, I can’t help but wonder if agents are going to get hip to the fact that they really should be using and/or creating their own media before the commons are destroyed.

[photopress:houses_on_hill.jpg,full,alignright]

Website Owners Not Liable for Comments

Considering this issue comes up every time Russ and I speak in front of an audience (including yesterday), I thought it would be interesting to share that the courts have been consistently ruling that blog owners are not legally responsible for the comments on their site, even if they moderate…

It happens all too often that some website owner in the US is sued with claims of libel over comments on that site in an open forum. We usually point to Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, and note that it’s pretty clear that service providers of such forums are not liable for content they didn’t write themselves. We also like to point to a 9th Circuit ruling, noting that, even when such comments are moderated or approved, the site owner or moderator isn’t responsible. While the Supreme Court later refused to hear an appeal on the case, meaning the ruling really still only covers the 9th Circuit, the ruling is so reasonable, you’d have to hope other courts would agree with the logic. It appears some already are. Tech Law Advisor points us to a few different sources covering a District Court ruling (outside of the 9th Circuit) that comes to similar conclusions (even if the article is improperly headlined). The case involves the somewhat infamous TuckerMax forums, which are known for being a bit on the… free wheeling side of things. Apparently, a bunch of anonymous commenters there were upset about a party thrown by some publicist, and posted some relatively mean comments about him in the forums. The publicist then sued Tucker Max, claiming that he was liable for the comments, even though it was clear they weren’t made by him. The actual court ruling (warning: pdf) is an enjoyable read, as the judge clearly explains why he’s throwing out the case. He even cites the ridiculous number of censors China employs to filter the internet to explain why it’s not reasonable to expect internet site owners to police their forums more carefully — even as he notes that Tucker Max clearly admits to moderating comments on his site. The ruling also refers back to an older ruling pointing out the importance of protecting free speech, even when vulgar. It’s another reasonable ruling concerning these issues. Hopefully, once enough of these pile up, most lawyers will know better than to file such lawsuits.

What is a view worth?

[photopress:lake.jpg,thumb,alignright] The higest value attributable to the view component of a property, would be “an unobstructable panoramic view”. The lowest, would be a potentially obstructable “peek”, or a “winter view” meaning the view is totally blocked by deciduous trees, and the view only appears when the trees shed their leaves in winter.

The value of a view is built in layers. The value of the lot, with no house on it at all, contains the first layer of view value. Some people are amazed when they see a property with no view at all, that is practically falling down, valued at $800,000. Who would pay that? If the answer is that no one except a builder would pay $800,000 for that “house”, then the house becomes a “tear down”, as the “value is in the lot”.

How a house is constructed, and the positioning of the rooms, and the windows in those rooms, is ultra important to its value. Especially here in the Seattle area. If the best views are from outside on a deck, then the value is diminished to the number of days in a year you can be outside to enjoy that view. If the best view is from “all main rooms”, meaning those rooms where you spend most of your time and do most of your entertaining with guests, the value will be higher than if the best view is from a little “cozy art studio” perched high above the main living areas. If the view is only from a bedroom, the house will be worth more if the builder puts the master bedroom in that view corner, rather than one or two, or even all, of the “odd” bedrooms.

Then you have the “bad” side of the street and the “good” side of the street. For instance here in Kirkland, the Market Street side of 1st Street will have a lesser value than the opposite side of the Street, particularly in those blocks where the opposite side is higher…much higher. The noise factor from Market Street and the ability to see traffic going by at a steady pace, detracts from the value of the view, even if the long distance view is pretty much the same from both sides of the street. The house on the “bad” side of the street, blocks the view of Market Street from the “good” side of the street, so that house being there, adds to the value of the property across the street.

If all of the properties in your view have already been built out to max height, the value is more likely to be retained long term, than if all of the houses, between your house and the view, are older ramblers that could potentially be built up to max height. So when you look out the window, don’t just look at the view. Look to see if most of the homes, between you and the view, are newer construction at “max height”, or “tear downs”.

What is “max height”? You can do a quick and fairly accurate determination, by spotting the newest houses in each level of slope between you and the view. Construct a “view viewer” with your hands (thumbs together and palms up, the way movie directors used to do to construct a facsimile “frame”), and move your hands from the height of the newest house, scanning over the entire landscape in your vision. This is one of the cases when Zillow can’t value a property for you, because Zillow has no hands! LOL

When it comes to view…do not make the mistake of basing what you will pay, on “what you see is what you get”. You have to determine the long term probabilities of view retention. Don’t expect to be told by anyone that the view “may” at some point in the future, be obstructed. You are pretty much on your own in that regard, as what “might” happen to your view is usually not a disclosure item, unless the neighbors have already pulled permits to build. Even then, I have yet to see a property flyer say, “This great view is going to be obstructed by a condo complex going up sometime next year”.

All that being said, for a view-oriented person like me, a home with a view is indeed “priceless”. Waking up each morning to see the Seattle Skyline across Lake Washington, AND Mt. Rainier to the left, brings a joy to my life that is hard to place a “value” on. But being a real estate agent, I can place that value, and for my house it was $50,000 when I bought it, and hopefully will be $250,000, after I finish enhancing certain features to capture more of the view’s value.

So to Mr. Freakonomics, who asks “Why do agents get more for their homes than other people”? Maybe it is because we tend to choose homes where a seller “left money on the table”, and then make those minor changes that capture value, before we sell. Always choose an agent that helps you make the same kinds of decisions that they would make, if they were buying or selling the property themselves.

Day Two – Realtor Mid-Year

Yes, I am tardy with my report for Day 2. There was not much going on from an interesting meeting standpoint so I visited the tradeshow floor. For anyone that has not been to a Realtor tradeshow, it is certainly an experience. Flashing buttons, contests, people throwing free things at you. Having been to many of these, it always amazes me the types of companies that have booths. For example, there were several jewelry and makeup booths. While I am not a woman, it seems odd that they would come to a real estate tradeshow. It would be like having Titleist as a vendor. Lots of real estate guys like to play golf but they don’t really fit at a Realtor tradeshow. Then again, I am pretty dense about this stuff and they seemed to have a bunch of women buying stuff so I guess they are the smart ones.

I visited a bunch of booths but a couple stood out for different reasons:

Realtor.com – They intro’d a Zillow/HouseValues-like feature on their home page called “What’s Your Home Worth.” It is a lead generation system for agents that provides basic home value data and then let’s the consumer elect to get more refined info if they want from a “featured” agent. Agents can buy territories and they apparently will rotate as consumers access the feature. Once a consumer asks for more info, the “featured” agent will get an email and that consumer will see the particular “featured” agent for a period of time each time they return. With the large amount of traffic that R.com gets, it will be interesting to see how well the lead gen system works. I tried my zip code and there was already an agent signed up! I think this will be a winner for R.com and the agents that jump on it but I also think that agents will squak when their choice area is sold out.

HomePoint – This is a Trulia-like company (although the get data via the MLS directly) that is trying to become a portal of sorts. Agents sign up for territories and get “featured” when a consumer clicks on a listing. Again, this is a lead-gen system for agents that even extends to listing agents and FSBOs. The thing that I did not get was how they were going to generate traffic. No eyeballs, no leads.

More later….

Russ

Day One – Realtor Mid-Year

I just attended my first meeting at the NAR Mid-Year. It was the MLS Association Executives Committee Meeting. There were three presenters to the group and I will provide some highlights of their presentations.

Laurie Janik, NAR General Counsel

Laurie indicated that claims against MLS under the NAR EO Insurance Policy have for the first time surpassed the number of general association claims. Out of 32 claims made this year, 18 involve MLS issues. Of the 18, 8 involve the FTC, 7 the DOJ and one involves a state attorney general. Most of the claims revolve around whether an MLS can exclude Exclusive Agency listings from data feeds to third party websites (e.g. Realtor.com). Since Exclusive Agency listing allow the seller to sell the house themselves, MLSs argue that allowing these listings to be displayed on the Internet basically enables the seller to have free advertising to attract a buyer without paying the listing side of the commission.

Laurie also discussed the DOJ lawsuit. NAR filed a motion to dismiss which raised three arguments:

First, that the DOJ is seeking injunctive relief for the VOW policy that has been rescinded and never implemented and as a result, there is no relief that can be granted under this claim.

Second, that the VOW Opt Out provision is neutral on its face, there is a presumption of cooperation and that decisions to Opt-Out are based on independent action of each broker.

Third, that the DOJ’s claim against the current Internet Listings Display Policy does not allege any anti-competitive effect.

Laurie cautioned that Motions to Dismiss are rarely granted in the 7th Circuit (where the suit is pending). She also said that 14 MLSs have been involved in DOJ subpoenas and that the NAR insurance coverage for this claim is gone so the MLSs that are involved are now spending their own money to respond to the subpoenas.

Lastly, she indicated that there was a productive settlement conference. She believes a key issue in the case will revolve around the MLS definition of “Participant

John Cook Interviews Redfin CEO: Redfin is "crazy-good"

Dustin pointed out that John Cook over at the Seattle PI just published an interesting interview of Redfin’s CEO, Glenn Kelman (Direct link to the mp3).

Before I jump in, I should point out that I run ShackPrices.com, a site that is faintly a Redfin competitor. That said, that both Redfin and ShackPrices are much more worried about our customers and competitors with lots of money than we are about each other. I’ll try my best to stay unbiased.

Up to this point, Dustin has been under the impression that Redfin is very insular (He’s even gone so far as to say “arrogant”). I get the impression that Redfin has some interesting technologies, but they are still looking for their path; Glenn is doing a big marketing push on a site that has only had cosmetic changes (to real estate buyers) in the last year. Throughout the interview he raves about his site. I think he says exciting ten times and “crazy-happy” or “crazy-love” at least three times. If you check Redfin.com, their news bar clearly shows that they’re on a marketing push (it also shows they still don’t have an interface person who can tell them to use that valuable space more effectively).

Glenn then talks about how addictive (crazy-addictive?) he finds the Redfin site. Personally, I get much more excited by the technologies behind PropSmart and Trulia. Those sites seem to have added to cool aerial photos with some real focus on the user interface. Redfin gives you great information about individual houses and even shows you the lot line, but it doesn’t give you any medium- to big-picture information. Neighborhood and city pricing information is worth much more than a single house’s historical sales (and this is coming from the dude who has only historical sales on his site).

I think it is interesting how an interview can really bring out the best and worst in somebody by just letting them talk. More articulately than anyone else I’ve heard from Redfin, Glenn describes the company’s lack of focus. For instance, he talks about how every state is different and national websites can’t accommodate that. Next, he talks about how he’s going to expand down the West Coast and all over the country. He talks about how cool the site is and how technology is changing, but gives digital photos of houses as an example of this trend (that was cool 5 years ago!). Even in vegan-city Seattle, I want to know where’s the meat to go with this fluff? When asked what’s driving traffic to Redfin, Glenn says “because it’s an awesome site.” I think I would have gone with “aerial imagery, property outlines and past sales data.” And if they don’t add to that list, they risk becoming just-another-mapping-site.

A while back, Anna wrote this article that showed how Redfin wants it both ways with real estate agents… and it is interesting that while Glenn is new to the staff (he started in September), he inarticulately describes this same conundrum that Redfin faces.

He says,

we’re not trying to serve the real estate agents… sell people out to real estate agents… what we’re trying to do instead is serve the consumer directly…

But when pressed by John about how Redfin makes money, he says

How do we make money now? People sign up for a real estate agent… The real estate agent and Redfin share the fruits of that.

Which essentially means “by selling customer names to agents.” I’ll give him credit – I hate the housevalues model and find it to be really sleazy and maybe there really is something to be said for waiting until someone requests an agent. However, they are not, as he says, “trying to do something totally different.” Redfin is just leaving more money on the table and, possibly generating higher-quality leads. I’m going to read into this, though, and say that they don’t plan on working with agents for long – note his question to himself “How do we make money now?

Dustin says “it is not hard to read between the lines that he’d really like to squeeze those agents out of the business if only it wasn’t for those “great” relationships he’s built up with a few of them.” I agree. Late in the interview he emphasizes how he wants to balance the business model:

… balancing our business model. We’ve got real estate agents that are partners, that we still value enormously, but we want to make sure we keep the focus on the home buyer and seller who is the customer.”

Word to agents: now that we have funding, you are not a priority.

This is my favorite part:

If you walked into Redfin, all you would see are engineers and a customer support person.

-Galen
ShackPrices.com